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Dark Souls PvP Tournament

This is a discussion on Dark Souls PvP Tournament within the Dark Souls forum, part of the D; Originally Posted by cocoasg Yes, what he said. Having spectated a fair number of PVP matches and being involved myself, ...

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by cocoasg View Post
    Yes, what he said.

    Having spectated a fair number of PVP matches and being involved myself, in Dark Souls, armor gear does not really matter much in the outcome of a duel, with two exceptions, the Giant's Armor and Havel armor sets due to their relatively high poise for their weight class.

    That said, below are, in my opinion, fair rules to implement:

    - A range of 10 to 20 in Soul Level
    - No double backstabs
    - Any weapons are allowed as long as...
    - A set Vitality level (40 or 50), so that everyone will have equal health (thus, you are free to either use scaling or non-scaling weapons, since your main stat maxed out, like 50 INT for me on my INT build, is about the same in damage as a non-scaling one)
    - Masks allowed
    - Hornet Ring either a yes or no, depending on how long you want each duel to last
    - Healing Flasks / Souls either a yes or no, with a max limit of three if yes
    - All armor sets allowed, except Havel and Giant's Armor sets


    That is all. ^o^
    And this is why I should not have made a build before the rules have even been set in stone xD

    I agree completely, especially with those armor sets. But what about Stone Armor? It does provide about 100 poise.

    @Anyone: If that's the case, has there been a decision on the max cap for Souls Levels?
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    Why limits one certain armor sets? If can't do enough damage to get through it.. then you suck . lol. Nah, but they don't protect that well enough do they need to limit them? Don't see anything against any rings either. Just two things stuck out to me. I'll edit and post if see anything else. Otherwise, agree on double backstabs and SL limits.

    Oh and my opinion on healing is at most allow one or 2 humanity uses OR any spells(up to build of user but healing can't be excessive) and no estus allowed seeing as only a human can use it anyways.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NeroRadec707 View Post
    Why limits one certain armor sets? If can't do enough damage to get through it.. then you suck . lol. Nah, but they don't protect that well enough do they need to limit them? Don't see anything against any rings either. Just two things stuck out to me. I'll edit and post if see anything else. Otherwise, agree on double backstabs and SL limits.

    Oh and my opinion on healing is at most allow one or 2 humanity uses OR any spells(up to build of user but healing can't be excessive) and no estus allowed seeing as only a human can use it anyways.
    The defense of armors isn't a concern, it's the invention poise. Someone wearing a full set of Havel's armor, for instance, would have around 120 poise, meaning they could stand through 2 one-handed R1 attacks of the weapon with the most stun-locking ability in the game. For users of smaller weapons that aren't greatswords, such as katanas, it would take somewhere around 7 hits just to break their poise and initiate a quick stunlock. Now, this is annoying, but the main problem that comes from this is that people could potentially walk right through and absorb damage from any attack, and still be standing in order to backstab the opponent.

    Now, that's where the problem is. Again, this is up to you guys, as I'd be okay either way considering I just want this tournament to happen and arguing about rules gets us nowhere. On another note, I did bring up the possibility of a 0 poise only tournament earlier, which could be fun. I dunno, discuss.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cocoasg View Post
    Yes, what he said.

    Having spectated a fair number of PVP matches and being involved myself, in Dark Souls, armor gear does not really matter much in the outcome of a duel, with two exceptions, the Giant's Armor and Havel armor sets due to their relatively high poise for their weight class.

    That said, below are, in my opinion, fair rules to implement:

    - A range of 10 to 20 in Soul Level
    - No double backstabs
    - Any weapons are allowed as long as...
    - A set Vitality level (40 or 50), so that everyone will have equal health (thus, you are free to either use scaling or non-scaling weapons, since your main stat maxed out, like 50 INT for me on my INT build, is about the same in damage as a non-scaling one)
    - Masks allowed
    - Hornet Ring either a yes or no, depending on how long you want each duel to last
    - Healing Flasks / Souls either a yes or no, with a max limit of three if yes
    - All armor sets allowed, except Havel and Giant's Armor sets


    That is all. ^o^


    I agree with all of this minus what was said about the gear. Just cuz this game added poise and there are people who disagree with it doesn't mean people who have taken it into consideration should be limited from using it. I've basically set my build around using Havels armor. I'm not limited to strictly just that set though. I'll still slaughter mass's of pvp'ers with my king jeramiah set. But at 125 I've put stats in areas I wouldn't have other wise if I was going to use a light armour build. What I'm saying is if you guys feel inclined to have a tournemant with low are no poise then do so. But also do one without armor restrictions.
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    Ok, so enough arguing. As some have said, we're getting nowhere and we keep disagreeing on stuff. That'll only delay starting this and we'll end up not having it due to disagreements. Since this is, to my knowledge, the first time we're doing this for DkS, let's just make it simple. Here are the proposed rules that I see as fair considering what I've read in this thread. If this thing is a 'success' then we can make other tourneys that have different rules. Obviously, some of these can't be checked (e.g., Soul Level) so we're relying on everyone being honest.


    .
    • 140 Soul Level MAXIMUM! No exceptions! I'm assuming people will be somewhere within the 120-140 range, so that should be ok for match-making purposes. If you can't meet this, let me know ASAP so we can work something out.
    • No CHAIN backstabbing! This is not a tactic that shows skill, and is cheap.
    • All weapons are allowed except for the Stone Greatsword's R2 attack.
    • All armor is allowed.
    • All magic is allowed except for Tranquil Walk of Peace miracle.
    • All rings are allowed except for the Hornet's Ring (unless both participants agree); the extra critical damage is too large to go unnoticed and a lucky backstab could make the difference between a win and a loss.
    • Healing is to be done via Humanity/Divine Blessing, with a maximum 2-3 times depending on what the duelists agree upon.
    .


    Are those acceptable to everyone? If we keep arguing, we'll get nowhere. I figure these rules provide a fair compromise. On a related note, no one's mentioned TWoP. Is this no longer an issue in the PvP domain? Should it be banned as a miracle?
    Last edited by Hitman; 05-09-2012 at 05:06 PM.

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    I didn't realize anyone was arguing lol. Well least I wasn't, just giving my opinion on it from other posts read. Agree high poise could be issue, but still that's the game of different builds in PVP. Just figured we were still discussing all the rules until figured time and date for tourney.

    But yes Hitman those rulings look good . Now just to get Demon's souls going and out of the way and be set to begin.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NeroRadec707 View Post
    I didn't realize anyone was arguing lol. Well least I wasn't, just giving my opinion on it from other posts read. Agree high poise could be issue, but still that's the game of different builds in PVP. Just figured we were still discussing all the rules until figured time and date for tourney.

    But yes Hitman those rulings look good . Now just to get Demon's souls going and out of the way and be set to begin.
    Well, there wasn't all-out flaming, but there were obvious disagreements that were getting us nowhere. Hopefully this is agreeable to everyone.

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    Yes Hitman. And in my own opinion, I'd say ban TWoP for this just to keep it mostly fair. Otherwise, that's just asking for backstabs and no skill while a person could come prepared to counter for it.. but if everyone just goes for that.. then be ridiculous and lame tourney. lol. Just another opinion from Lord Nero .

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    Quote Originally Posted by NeroRadec707 View Post
    Yes Hitman. And in my own opinion, I'd say ban TWoP for this just to keep it mostly fair. Otherwise, that's just asking for backstabs and no skill while a person could come prepared to counter for it.. but if everyone just goes for that.. then be ridiculous and lame tourney. lol. Just another opinion from Lord Nero .
    Agreed--unless there's a huge outcry for people wanting TWoP.

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    I really doubt there will be a huge outcry(except for fact I said there wouldn't) and even still anyone that needs that miracle to win.. obviously doesn't have skill to fight anyways and prolly just goes for chain backstabs.

    What about a rule for running away constantly from your opponent? I haven't addressed that with PVP in DS yet.. but alot of times ppl lately online that invade will run away and circle the entire dueling area to escape(then normally go for a heal) but then will try to turn back quickly after making the player chase them to attack and thne repeat. Anything on this?

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    Tranquil Win of Pussies is to be banned for eternity.

    I agree with all the other stipulations Hitman has proposed except for the 50 VIT. Adding a particular stat cap as well as an SL cap is redundant. If you can make a good build with more than 50 VIT while staying within the SL guidelines, then I say allow it.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Helyx View Post
    If you can make a good build with more than 50 VIT while staying within the SL guidelines, then I say allow it.
    Any thoughts (other than Jack, since I already know what he'll say)?

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    Tranquil Walk of Peace, despite patch 1.05 dumbing it down to only a 10 second long miracle, is still a problem and should be considered for banning. That said, if you're going to ban TWoP, then you'll also have to *consider* banning the Stone Knight Greatsword, which has a two-handed R2 attack that does the same exact thing as TWoP.

    And actually, Hitman, I don't have a problem with having more than 50 VIT on a character (though actually building a character with more than 50 VIT is somewhat silly considering there would be better places to put your SLs because of the diminishing of VIT). This considering that if someone would want to make a straight DEX build, they would have a lot of extra SLs to put into places in order to reach SL 120, with which the most reasonable place to put them would be VIT. The problem comes more when people tack on the Mask of the Mother and FaP ring in order to boost their VIT up to like 2,500 HP, while also having 99 VIT and using Lightning weps. Having like 60 VIT is reasonable.

    The problem, though, is that a level cap of 140 is pretty damn high. This is awesome for people who want to use a Quality Faith build (such as a buffed Murakumo, where the extra 20 levels is super helpful in making a well-rounded character) or a Greatsword of Artorias build, BUT for ones who, as aforementioned, are going with something like a straight DEX, would leave them with an extra 20 SLs to put, where? Vitality. Hence the current ruling of nothing more than 50 VIT, BUT that's still too limiting. So where do we go from here.

    Well, two options. Increase the most VIT you can have to something like 60 or so, and keep the SL range from 120-140, or decrease the SL range to something like 110-130 and keep the 50 VIT rule the same. That's just my two cents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JackAttack View Post
    Tranquil Walk of Peace, despite patch 1.05 dumbing it down to only a 10 second long miracle, is still a problem and should be considered for banning. That said, if you're going to ban TWoP, then you'll also have to *consider* banning the Stone Knight Greatsword, which has a two-handed R2 attack that does the same exact thing as TWoP.

    And actually, Hitman, I don't have a problem with having more than 50 VIT on a character (though actually building a character with more than 50 VIT is somewhat silly considering there would be better places to put your SLs because of the diminishing of VIT). This considering that if someone would want to make a straight DEX build, they would have a lot of extra SLs to put into places in order to reach SL 120, with which the most reasonable place to put them would be VIT. The problem comes more when people tack on the Mask of the Mother and FaP ring in order to boost their VIT up to like 2,500 HP, while also having 99 VIT and using Lightning weps. Having like 60 VIT is reasonable.

    The problem, though, is that a level cap of 140 is pretty damn high. This is awesome for people who want to use a Quality Faith build (such as a buffed Murakumo, where the extra 20 levels is super helpful in making a well-rounded character) or a Greatsword of Artorias build, BUT for ones who, as aforementioned, are going with something like a straight DEX, would leave them with an extra 20 SLs to put, where? Vitality. Hence the current ruling of nothing more than 50 VIT, BUT that's still too limiting. So where do we go from here.

    Well, two options. Increase the most VIT you can have to something like 60 or so, and keep the SL range from 120-140, or decrease the SL range to something like 110-130 and keep the 50 VIT rule the same. That's just my two cents.
    Ok, well in light of your post, let's eliminate the VIT cap and leave the 120-140 range. I'm pretty sure I know of at least 1 person that wants to participate, but their build is SL 140.

    I'll go make the change and post the as-of-now final rules in the OP.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Elpoko View Post
    Hitman could you please delete me from the list of participants in this tournament as I no longer wish to be an active member of this site. Thanks in advance.
    I noticed you posted on the Demon's Souls boosting thread, so I wondered about this. Sorry you're no longer wanting to be active, but sure I'll remove you from the list.

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    Ok, so the OP has what is most likely going to be the official rules set along with the list of participants. I've included your name if you've explicitly said that you're interested. Please think of when you are most likely available and list it so we can set up matches that would be convenient for everyone. Something like:

    Example 1:
    Monday - Friday, 8:00 PM - 11:00 PM (U.S. EST)

    Example 2:
    Weekends, 10:00 AM - 10:00 PM (+2:00 GMT)

    This will most likely end up being 3 rounds--a 'quarter-finals' round, a 'semi-finals' round, and a 'finals' round. Once we get everyone's availability, we'll set up a bracket or something along those lines.

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    I won't have a stable schedule for about a week. I work the next 3 days, get Sat off, and than work 3 more days. I'm not sure what my schedule is after that, I'll check tonight though.
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    My schedule is stable, but pretty sporadically busy. Once school ends for me on June 4th, I'll have a lot more time on my hands, in which case I'd be more free on weekdays from generally around noon to 4:00 central US time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgar View Post
    I won't have a stable schedule for about a week. I work the next 3 days, get Sat off, and than work 3 more days. I'm not sure what my schedule is after that, I'll check tonight though.
    Quote Originally Posted by JackAttack View Post
    My schedule is stable, but pretty sporadically busy. Once school ends for me on June 4th, I'll have a lot more time on my hands, in which case I'd be more free on weekdays from generally around noon to 4:00 central US time.
    I'm not looking for an answer today or anything, so no rush. At a minimum, we won't do this until the Demon's Souls NA servers are completely shut down, so we have a few days, still. If Jack is out of school by June 4th, we may just wait until then to start since that frees him up a bit and he can dual with folks that are home during the day and work nights.

    I'm pretty much available some weekday afternoons, usually any time after 6:00 PM, although it's not always guaranteed. Weekends are usually "if-y" for me.

    Quote Originally Posted by cocoasg View Post
    Weekends, 10 am - 6 am (GMT + 8)
    Ok, so that's 10 pm - 6 pm (U.S. EST) for us, one day behind you.

    I could probaby get on with you a Friday night/your Saturday morning, as a potential match.

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