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You should Demand more from sony's UMD Passport Program

This is a discussion on You should Demand more from sony's UMD Passport Program within the General PS Vita Discussion forum, part of the Everything PlayStation; You Should Demand More From Sony's UMD Passport Program - Giant Bomb I’m not sure I’ve witnessed a more blatant ...

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    You should Demand more from sony's UMD Passport Program

    You Should Demand More From Sony's UMD Passport Program - Giant Bomb

    I’m not sure I’ve witnessed a more blatant cash grab that came and went without a lick of righteous fanfare from the consumers it gouges more than Sony’s recent revealing of the UMD Passport program. To be fair, it initially passed under my radar, too.

    I know, I know, we’re all busy playing through The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim--but still. Listen.

    UMD Passport is Sony’s long-awaited service to give PSP owners a way to magically transport their UMD-based games on the handheld’s soon-launching successor, Vita. Vita does not come with a UMD reader, which means those games are as good as garbage without access to a digital version to play on Vita. Sony talked about implementing a feature like this when PSP go was a thing but it never materialized.

    Sony has not announced UMD Passport outside of Japan, and did not answer my latest query about it.

    To take advantage of UMD Passport, users must download a “UMD Passport” application to their PSP, insert a compatible UMD, and Sony somehow verifies that UMD (the exact process isn't known). Once that’s done, you gain access to a digital version--for a cost, anyway.

    And that’s where it gets weird really fast.

    Simply charging for access to a digital copy isn’t worth getting up in arms about. Bandwidth, while cheap, isn’t free, so while one could argue that Sony should take the hit and encourage goodwill amongst early adopters, passing up on a the chance to ask for a little bit of cash in an age of endless monetization is, at this point, expected. It would make sense, then, to implement an across-the-board cost to make the digital conversion, a fee that would cover Sony’s bandwidth costs through PlayStation Network and provide publishers with compensation that encourages everyone to participate in the UMD Passport program.

    No such standard exists. While it’s not plainly spelled out in Sony’s announcement (which is roughly but easily translatable through Google), it’s implied that publishers are determining what to charge for this, and it’s clear publishers have zero problem erring on the side of happily padding the bottom line.

    The confusion begins with Sony itself unable to lay out what it should be charging for going digital, with Patapon 3 and Gran Turismo costing 1,000 yen ($12.89), while Hot Shots Golf 2 costs 500 yen ($6.44). The only difference between them seems to be release date and labeling--Hot Shots Golf 2 is part of the “best of” lineup in Japan, and was released late 2007. Gran Turismo (2009) and Patapon 3 (2011) came later.

    There is no reason for these games to cost any different, except for Sony to be calculating that some games are worth more than others to consumers, giving them a convenient way to ask for more. The easy-to-buy licensing argument is dispelled by Patapon 3 being wholly original.

    When this carte blanche approach to price assignment is handed over to third-parties, it’s far worse.

    Pachi-Slot Simulator: Treasures transfer Daito Giken Official enclosed Goddess ~ ~ PORTABLE--yes, that’s the actual name--is a pachinko title that costs 5,040 yen ($64.95) right now on Amazon.co.jp, and the Paon Corporation is asking that anyone who has already purchased the game on UMD to pay 2,500 yen ($30.93) for the digital copy. That’s nearly 50% of the original price price--sheer arrogance, and one of that doesn’t try to hide its unadulterated consumer exploitation. It's staring you in the face.

    Sony could have a weakly credible argument about allowing publishers to determine pricing if publishers were doing so based on the relevancy of piracy to each product, but as unlocking these digital copies requires the consumer to have a copy of the actual UMD, that doesn’t hold water. One assumes non-UMD holders would have to pay even more.

    Anti-consumer moves like these drive people towards piracy by sheer irritation. Make no mistake: Vita will be broken at some point. No device can avoid piracy; each one can only hope to push that day further back.

    While piracy is never justified, it’s not hard to imagine a scenario where a Vita owner wants to play the games they already own on a platform that’s fully capable of doing so, and pausing at the hoops they're asked to jump through. Players are consumers, and deserve respect. Such a user may look over and see publishers seizing an opportunity to squeeze dollars from them and pounce at the chance for subversion. As a platform holder, Sony has the ability--and duty--to keep this under control, but it says everything that Sony’s own games don’t adhere to any coherent standard.

    What makes this all the more confusing is Sony's progressive approach to MotorStorm RC, which will be released on both Vita and PlayStation 3. No matter which version you purchase, you'll gain access to the other one. Futhermore, in a conversation with GameIndustry.biz, developer Evolution Studios suggested the game may not even cost full-price, a result of aggressive pricing for mobile games changing the dynamics of the industry. One part of Sony does not appear to be talking to the other.

    It may be too late for Japanese consumers--is Sony really going to tell the Paon Corporation it suddenly has to charge exponentially less?--but Sony Computer Entertainment America has an opportunity to make this right. The UMD Passport program has not been announced for anywhere outside Japan, which means there’s time for policies to change before they’re set in stone. It may not come here at all, but in the event that it does: do the right thing, SCEA. Don’t screw your own fans.

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    Wait how is this any different than if I want my GBA games on my DSI or 3ds? I have to hope that Nintendo uploads those to VC and then allows me to download them for a fee. This is the same thing and you know it so /thread

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    No, stfu.

    This isn't some "OH SONY ARE MAKING US PAY FOR OUR GAMES AGAIN" bullshit that people seem to think it is.

    You do not have any entitlement to the digital version unless you've paid for it. Owning a UMD copy doesn't give you that entitlement.

    And as for the giving publishers free reign, why the fuck not it's their publication... If Sony wanted to exhibit any control over it they'll have to pay for the publication rights meaning the games would probably cost us more.

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    Simple solution: Keep your PSP and games to avoid buying them again

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    Quote Originally Posted by dr_mayus View Post
    Wait how is this any different than if I want my GBA games on my DSI or 3ds? I have to hope that Nintendo uploads those to VC and then allows me to download them for a fee. This is the same thing and you know it so /thread
    Nintendo doing it too doesn't mean we can't talk about it, you know ? You can also bash Nintendo for doing it on their sub-forum, in case you want to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oxymoron28 View Post
    No, stfu.

    This isn't some "OH SONY ARE MAKING US PAY FOR OUR GAMES AGAIN" bullshit that people seem to think it is.

    You do not have any entitlement to the digital version unless you've paid for it. Owning a UMD copy doesn't give you that entitlement.

    And as for the giving publishers free reign, why the fuck not it's their publication... If Sony wanted to exhibit any control over it they'll have to pay for the publication rights meaning the games would probably cost us more.
    Only post missing is Minarum's so Ps360's hate fan club is completely gathered here .

    Oxymoron28 (sorry, couldn't resist), while I agree you paid for the UMD copy and not for the digital one, the original idea of the passport is that you get to carry the game you bought on to your VITA, which is translated as giving you a digital version of the game you bought for the VITA, not as "we'll charge you extra for the game you bought so you won't say we didn't give you the opportunity of moving the game to your VITA", hence the discussion.

    I also assume there's some sort of backlash against it due to Sony always having backwards compatibility of some sort on their consoles (except for the GO and the Slim PS3 models).

    While I agree with giving publishers the right to price them whatever they want (it's not Sony's product, afterall), the idea of having different prices is something that should be debatable. Why should a game like Gran Turismo be worth the same as Patapon 3, when there's a 2-year difference between their release dates? If anything, they should just apply some regulations to the pricing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagflar View Post
    Nintendo doing it too doesn't mean we can't talk about it, you know ? You can also bash Nintendo for doing it on their sub-forum, in case you want to.
    Kind of missed my point and this has nothing to do with PS360 (well not entirely) you see you can't burn one company for doing it when another did the same thing and got away with it.

    It is a brand new system it doesn't have to be BC at all, but they decided on this format as a means to get your psp games onto the Vita. Would it be better if they were free, sure, but then what is to stop me from giving my umd to all my friends so they can all get the game for free as well.

    I don't go crying to Nintendo because my gameboy colour games don't work anymore nor do I go crying to Sony because I can't play my VHS tapes on my PS3. So why are people making such a big deal out of this?

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    Quote Originally Posted by dr_mayus View Post
    Kind of missed my point and this has nothing to do with PS360 (well not entirely) you see you can't burn one company for doing it when another did the same thing and got away with it.

    It is a brand new system it doesn't have to be BC at all, but they decided on this format as a means to get your psp games onto the Vita. Would it be better if they were free, sure, but then what is to stop me from giving my umd to all my friends so they can all get the game for free as well.

    I don't go crying to Nintendo because my gameboy colour games don't work anymore nor do I go crying to Sony because I can't play my VHS tapes on my PS3. So why are people making such a big deal out of this?
    I did get the message, and I get how Ps360 loves to bash a company for doing something even though another one he loves did it already, but most of you guys make it too personal and that's irritating and moronic.

    I don't really recall anyone asking Sony to do this for them (if I'm mistaken, tell me so). It seems to me that Sony is thinking "Hey, let's give our consumer the opportunity to play their games on their VITA", and there's a simple solution to your problem: get one-time use Codes for all those games you are planning to have available for digital distribution and send them to the consumer after they register the copy and they validate the copy's authenticity, then let them download them from the PS Store in their account, which I assume one will only eb able to activate in one or two VITAs.

    Because people like to bitch about things like this, just like you love to bitch about Ps360.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagflar View Post
    Oxymoron28 (sorry, couldn't resist), while I agree you paid for the UMD copy and not for the digital one, the original idea of the passport is that you get to carry the game you bought on to your VITA, which is translated as giving you a digital version of the game you bought for the VITA, not as "we'll charge you extra for the game you bought so you won't say we didn't give you the opportunity of moving the game to your VITA", hence the discussion.
    Twat-features (sorry, couldn't resist), The people who thought Sony were going to release a system to convert UMD copies of games to digital copies have only got themselves to blame for their completely unrealistic and frankly stupidly high self-entitled expectations. Why should you get a free digital copy for owning the UMD copy?

    And also, prove to me that that was the original intention of the UMD passport program, I bet you can't, because it wasn't. Sony only ever said they'd look into releasing a passport program for those who owned a UMD, they never said it'd be free and they never said it'd be a UMD conversion.



    While I agree with giving publishers the right to price them whatever they want (it's not Sony's product, afterall), the idea of having different prices is something that should be debatable. Why should a game like Gran Turismo be worth the same as Patapon 3, when there's a 2-year difference between their release dates? If anything, they should just apply some regulations to the pricing.
    Because the publishers said so, got a problem with that? Don't buy it. Simple as that.

    You're actually getting a service here for nothing, you have no right to a discount on the digital version of the game for just owning the UMD version, this is just a testament to the spoilt brat-ish self entitled behaviour of gamers. This notion of feeling they should get shit for free for some bullshit reason or else they'll throw a paddy is just ridiculous, and it's a fucking embarrassment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagflar View Post
    I did get the message, and I get how Ps360 loves to bash a company for doing something even though another one he loves did it already, but most of you guys make it too personal and that's irritating and moronic.

    I don't really recall anyone asking Sony to do this for them (if I'm mistaken, tell me so). It seems to me that Sony is thinking "Hey, let's give our consumer the opportunity to play their games on their VITA", and there's a simple solution to your problem: get one-time use Codes for all those games you are planning to have available for digital distribution and send them to the consumer after they register the copy and they validate the copy's authenticity, then let them download them from the PS Store in their account, which I assume one will only eb able to activate in one or two VITAs.

    Because people like to bitch about things like this, just like you love to bitch about Ps360.
    First off people did bitch about not being able to play UMD on their Vita. I am in stores every day and the number one thing I heard regarding Vita was why can't it play my UMDs.

    Second there would be no way to register your game without it resorting to the problems I brought up already. Nintendo, Square and other companies (those are the only two I can think of right now) include registration codes in their games but Sony doesn't do that (unless you count online codes in new games) so there is no way of telling which games you bought and which you juts borrowed off your friend. Also not all psp games are Sony's games or are available on PSN so why should they eat the cost of a game that they didn't even publish.

    I am sorry if I sound irritating to you Nag but it is also irritating having to answer the same question over and over again when it is not a problem to begin with. I will try to do better in the future or you can just block me as well.

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    Meh, I plan on keeping my PSP 3000 and getting the Vita Christmas 2012 with new games anyway. No biggie for me.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagflar View Post
    Only post missing is Minarum's so Ps360's hate fan club is completely gathered here .
    i chuckled at that line. minarum will be here in a few hours (maybe) but people can still continue without him

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxymoron28 View Post
    Twat-features (sorry, couldn't resist), The people who thought Sony were going to release a system to convert UMD copies of games to digital copies have only got themselves to blame for their completely unrealistic and frankly stupidly high self-entitled expectations. Why should you get a free digital copy for owning the UMD copy?

    And also, prove to me that that was the original intention of the UMD passport program, I bet you can't, because it wasn't. Sony only ever said they'd look into releasing a passport program for those who owned a UMD, they never said it'd be free and they never said it'd be a UMD conversion.

    Because the publishers said so, got a problem with that? Don't buy it. Simple as that.

    You're actually getting a service here for nothing, you have no right to a discount on the digital version of the game for just owning the UMD version, this is just a testament to the spoilt brat-ish self entitled behaviour of gamers. This notion of feeling they should get shit for free for some bullshit reason or else they'll throw a paddy is just ridiculous, and it's a fucking embarrassment.
    People have high-expectations because Sony is a company that tends to give a great service to them, so they naturally expect Sony to treat them very well with whatever they do. They think they'll be given a free digital copy of the game they bought with their money for the PSP because it's the same shit they bought and Sony has a history of having backwards compatibility (even if limited). They also missunderstood the passport system and thought it was an actual UMD conversion.

    True, but can you prove it ain't right either? "I bet you can't", for what they think isn't the same thing that they'll tell you (public relations are important to them, afterall). Just like you try to say that it wasn't, I can say that it was, but in the end none of us know for sure it was/wasn't, and we can't prove it.

    Yeah, I do. I don't like paying for something when it ain't worth that much (reason for which I don't buy Apple products). It's something people in general don't like (unless they have more than enough money to spare or conformists), and yes, I could avoid buying it, but that won't fix the problem of companies overpricing their shit, hence why I complain.

    Actually, no. That service is part of those $250-$300 you are paying for your VITA system, and you shouldn't generalize that much about gamers. There are a lot of different groups out there who like to get stuff for free for whatever reason, and if you feel embarrased, well, tough shit. Good luck finding a group you'd like to be part of that lacks people who don't want shit for free for any reason they can find.

    Quote Originally Posted by dr_mayus View Post
    First off people did bitch about not being able to play UMD on their Vita. I am in stores every day and the number one thing I heard regarding Vita was why can't it play my UMDs.

    Second there would be no way to register your game without it resorting to the problems I brought up already. Nintendo, Square and other companies (those are the only two I can think of right now) include registration codes in their games but Sony doesn't do that (unless you count online codes in new games) so there is no way of telling which games you bought and which you juts borrowed off your friend. Also not all psp games are Sony's games or are available on PSN so why should they eat the cost of a game that they didn't even publish.

    I am sorry if I sound irritating to you Nag but it is also irritating having to answer the same question over and over again when it is not a problem to begin with. I will try to do better in the future or you can just block me as well.
    Well, that proves me wrong then. I rarely visit my local game store and when I do, I don't see anyone who actually knows about gaming news, so I don't listen to people askimg about system sepcs or backwards compatibility on the VITA. Any discussions I have are here, on the internet.

    I was actually thinking of using the bar code behind the game's case, not the thing Square has . But you do have a point regarding borrowing games, because who knows for sure the original owner will get the VITA.

    Of course, they could also come up with some kind of DRM that can fix any problems you and I together could come up with, but I don't think they'd want to because that would involve a loss of money for them.

    Lastly, blocking you won't solve anything. Your posts will still be in the forums for everyone else to read afterall, plus I don't think trying to remove the problem will solve it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UrbanHellraiser View Post
    i chuckled at that line. minarum will be here in a few hours (maybe) but people can still continue without him
    Nah, it won't be the same without him

    I think they should make you pay, but if possible they should offer a discount to owners who own the actual hard copy. Although, I think it would be impossible to know who owns the game and who doesn't, so I guess it won't happen. Now, wasn't this already argued about in another thread?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagflar View Post
    People have high-expectations because Sony is a company that tends to give a great service to them, so they naturally expect Sony to treat them very well with whatever they do. They think they'll be given a free digital copy of the game they bought with their money for the PSP because it's the same shit they bought and Sony has a history of having backwards compatibility (even if limited). They also missunderstood the passport system and thought it was an actual UMD conversion.
    "They think they'll be given a free digital copy of the game" well that's their own fault then, what made them think they'd get a free copy? Because they already paid for a physical copy? As I've said countless times before, does owning the digital copy of a game entitle you to the physical copy? Hell no.

    Also "Because it's the same shit they bought" boo-fucking-hoo. It's not the same shit they bought, they bought a UMD distributed game. Content is the same distribution is not.

    True, but can you prove it ain't right either? "I bet you can't", for what they think isn't the same thing that they'll tell you (public relations are important to them, afterall). Just like you try to say that it wasn't, I can say that it was, but in the end none of us know for sure it was/wasn't, and we can't prove it.
    Except it's not free and there was zero indication it will be free. People being stupid isn't an indication and at the end of the day, it's not free so deal with it.

    Yeah, I do. I don't like paying for something when it ain't worth that much (reason for which I don't buy Apple products). It's something people in general don't like (unless they have more than enough money to spare or conformists), and yes, I could avoid buying it, but that won't fix the problem of companies overpricing their shit, hence why I complain.
    "When it ain't worth that much" It's cheaper then it is on the store, so stop with the cry baby attitude, if you don't line the pricing then just don't buy it. THIS IS A SERVICE. YOU ARE GETTING A DISCOUNT ON GAMES FOR NO REASON OTHER THEN OWNING A COPY OF IT IN A DIFFERENT FORMAT.

    Actually, no. That service is part of those $250-$300 you are paying for your VITA system, and you shouldn't generalize that much about gamers. There are a lot of different groups out there who like to get stuff for free for whatever reason, and if you feel embarrased, well, tough shit. Good luck finding a group you'd like to be part of that lacks people who don't want shit for free for any reason they can find.
    I highly doubt it's part of the $250-$300 price tag considering Sony make no money off the Vita standalone it's hard to believe that the sales would cover a PSP passport program...

    It's not a generalisation is an observation. Plenty of gaming communities on the internet that all act in the same manner and it's pretty horrific and counter productive to those who try to shake that stigma.

    Quote Originally Posted by Danko1900 View Post
    I think they should make you pay, but if possible they should offer a discount to owners who own the actual hard copy. Although, I think it would be impossible to know who owns the game and who doesn't, so I guess it won't happen. Now, wasn't this already argued about in another thread?
    That's what the UMD Passport program is about, you get a discount on the digital copy of the games for owning the UMD copy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagflar View Post
    People have high-expectations because Sony is a company that tends to give a great service to them, so they naturally expect Sony to treat them very well with whatever they do. They think they'll be given a free digital copy of the game they bought with their money for the PSP because it's the same shit they bought and Sony has a history of having backwards compatibility (even if limited). They also missunderstood the passport system and thought it was an actual UMD conversion.

    True, but can you prove it ain't right either? "I bet you can't", for what they think isn't the same thing that they'll tell you (public relations are important to them, afterall). Just like you try to say that it wasn't, I can say that it was, but in the end none of us know for sure it was/wasn't, and we can't prove it.

    Yeah, I do. I don't like paying for something when it ain't worth that much (reason for which I don't buy Apple products). It's something people in general don't like (unless they have more than enough money to spare or conformists), and yes, I could avoid buying it, but that won't fix the problem of companies overpricing their shit, hence why I complain.

    Actually, no. That service is part of those $250-$300 you are paying for your VITA system, and you shouldn't generalize that much about gamers. There are a lot of different groups out there who like to get stuff for free for whatever reason, and if you feel embarrased, well, tough shit. Good luck finding a group you'd like to be part of that lacks people who don't want shit for free for any reason they can find.



    Well, that proves me wrong then. I rarely visit my local game store and when I do, I don't see anyone who actually knows about gaming news, so I don't listen to people askimg about system sepcs or backwards compatibility on the VITA. Any discussions I have are here, on the internet.

    I was actually thinking of using the bar code behind the game's case, not the thing Square has . But you do have a point regarding borrowing games, because who knows for sure the original owner will get the VITA.

    Of course, they could also come up with some kind of DRM that can fix any problems you and I together could come up with, but I don't think they'd want to because that would involve a loss of money for them.

    Lastly, blocking you won't solve anything. Your posts will still be in the forums for everyone else to read afterall, plus I don't think trying to remove the problem will solve it.
    Agree 100%

    Thats why I wont get VITA. I dont like to play my games without a TV anyway. But regarding this issue I couldnt agree more.
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    I'm sorry, but I think it's even amazing that they are providing us with such a program.

    If I were to pick up the Vita, I would be for Vita games, not PSP games.

    The fact that it's even backwards compatible with nearly everything PSP wise on the PSN store is great, but that's not why you should be purchasing it.

    Remember, you guys do still have your PSPs.

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