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Vita Game cartridges vs Downloadable version

This is a discussion on Vita Game cartridges vs Downloadable version within the General PS Vita Discussion forum, part of the Everything PlayStation; Originally Posted by dr_mayus But ok 5 new IPS Gravity Rush, Little Deviants, Dust 514, Ruin and Sound Shapes What ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by dr_mayus View Post
    But ok 5 new IPS Gravity Rush, Little Deviants, Dust 514, Ruin and Sound Shapes

    What is Sound Shapes...time for Sean's Stupid Post Awesome Trailer


    DUST 514 is on the ps3 too.


    also sound shapes was a similar to a game idea i had in my head for years, too bad someone already beat me to it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ps360 View Post
    DUST 514 is on the ps3 too.
    No it is a Vita game with PS3 connectivity

    Trailer time


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ps360 View Post
    "actually good" was a requirement if you read my request.
    Jesus Christ, the amount of times I've had to request you to learn the definition of words... Did you even go to school?

    Do yourself a favour before coming back here, go to this site Dictionary.com | Find the Meanings and Definitions of Words at Dictionary.com and just study what ever you can for as long as it takes to improve your inherent lack of definition.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ps360 View Post
    i said games that actually look good.

    Not a AR Game that looks bad, and mainly uses Augmented reality as the reason to buy it (Not to mention it doesn't make good use of it at all, just as a background)

    and a Generic Third person shooter that makes people see "HEY GUYS LOOK DUAL ANALOG STICKS".
    I rest my case. And in another post you made the same exact comment, except you left out "good". But either way, just because you don't like the games, doesn't mean they are not good. Either way, the point still stands. You got wtfbomberman pwned.

    Instead of arguing, come back with a valid point.

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    That is somewhat disconcerting.

    The more Sony fumbles around with this memory card thing, the more I am convinced they will end up shooting themselves in the foot over it.

    I'm not going to expect every launch title to be phenomenal, just give me a couple and I can forgive a bunch of glorified tech demos.

    I am not going to expect everything to be flawless at launch in terms of the system, I can forgive a few hiccups so long as I end up getting a system I can use.

    I really can't forgive a basic, fundamental problem with how the system was designed like the memory cards appear to be... So you, Sony, are telling me not only are they expensive, but they are slower than your cartridges? Then why use them if they are going to be your bottleneck? Why not just make the memory card a blank cartridge? I'm not going to fault you for using a proprietary format, but seriously, why use it if it offers no tangible benefit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ps360 View Post
    "actually good" was a requirement if you read my request.
    Problem is thats subjective.

    Its no different than yours and my differing opinion on Zelda/Mario games. When Nintendo releases a new Mario next year, it needs to prove itself to be good to me, whereas you would likely implicitly assume it to be good until proven otherwise.

    And we can come to completely different answers once we have assessed the games...
    Gauss's Piracy Uncertainty Principle: When you pirate a game, that act inherently changes the results of what is to come after your pirating. You can't make any statement with any certainty regarding what would have happened had you not pirated the game.


    Gauss's Rating Rationale:
    0-1: A game whose very existence is abhorrent to all things creative and intelligent.
    2-4: A just plain bad game.
    5-6: A game that has alot of mistakes, but is atleast playable and has some enjoyable sections. Good for a rent.
    7: An average game, should be played at some point
    8: A good game, should buy at some point
    9: A great game, day-one purchase
    10: A game that goes above and beyond the generation, its transcendent.

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    I was referring to other threads where almost everyone was complaining about the cards.

    If they are actually slower than the retail equivalent of the cards, then I assume read/write rates aren't that steller, to which I should have been allowed to stick a class 10 micro sd into it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dr_mayus View Post
    No it is a Vita game with PS3 connectivity

    originally announced as a PS3 title at sony's E3 Confrence with barely any focus on the vita version other than saying "it's on that too".

    It isn't a VITA game with ps3 connectivity, it's mainly a PS3 game with Vita connectivity.

    prove me wrong.


    also wipeout has terrible controls.




    Quote Originally Posted by Gauss View Post
    I really can't forgive a basic, fundamental problem with how the system was designed like the memory cards appear to be... So you, Sony, are telling me not only are they expensive, but they are slower than your cartridges? Then why use them if they are going to be your bottleneck? Why not just make the memory card a blank cartridge? I'm not going to fault you for using a proprietary format, but seriously, why use it if it offers no tangible benefit?

    Last edited by Ps360; 12-22-2011 at 10:23 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ps360 View Post
    Huge issue here...

    1) Nothing intrinsically wrong with wanting to make money, blaming greed for things excuses people's stupidity.

    The whole point of a capital-based economy (whether that capital is money, resources, time, w/e) is stability is garnered from everybody generating capital and equity, then exchanging it for something else of necessity, to benefit themselves and, ultimately, society through the exchange (assuming your capital-based system is just, your exchange provides someone else with capital which they can then exchange, so on and so forth).

    So I don't fault Sony with the desire to make money, anybody who makes anything or provides any service in this country has this desire on some level.

    2) How exactly can they make money off something if it offers no benefit?

    Don't get me wrong, this is stupid, but I think its because this is stupid... Not because of some over-simplified viewpoint of boiling everything down to money.

    The key part to making money is that the thing you are offering (a product, service, whatever) that provides some inherent benefit the person who has the money you want is willing to pay for.

    If that isn't there and your product provides no benefit, then your desire to make money is irrelevant because you won't.

    I am saying that last part ISN'T THERE, that if the prices are going to be the way they are now and/or that this memory format isn't improved upon in some way that the VITA will fail not because of Sony's greed, but because of their stupidity because you can't make any money off a bad product.

    That last part is, also, why I don't buy the whole "they just want to suck money from our wallets" bullshit ever. Nobody forces you to spend money on this stuff, and nobody is going to consume a product that doesn't offer them a benefit. That whole concept is just that average late-teens/early-20s "I know how the world works even though I'm ignorant" over-simplification that spawns the whole perceived college-age-rebellion (thats actually just an indoctrinating conformity) of anti-capitalism/anti-religion/anti-corporation/etc said demographic goes through during that period of time.
    Gauss's Piracy Uncertainty Principle: When you pirate a game, that act inherently changes the results of what is to come after your pirating. You can't make any statement with any certainty regarding what would have happened had you not pirated the game.


    Gauss's Rating Rationale:
    0-1: A game whose very existence is abhorrent to all things creative and intelligent.
    2-4: A just plain bad game.
    5-6: A game that has alot of mistakes, but is atleast playable and has some enjoyable sections. Good for a rent.
    7: An average game, should be played at some point
    8: A good game, should buy at some point
    9: A great game, day-one purchase
    10: A game that goes above and beyond the generation, its transcendent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gauss View Post
    2) How exactly can they make money off something if it offers no benefit?
    because fanboys

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    Quote Originally Posted by antoniosbandana View Post
    *sigh* i was hoping to see something cool. i really don't care about a 2 second difference.
    exactly, it's only a bit slower so really it doesn't make much difference, I don't whether you were trying to bash sony here or whether you were actually posting info, if just posting info, I mean I don't mind whether it's a bit slower, but some ppl may be interested, so I'm not hating on you, Yeah I'm serious, but if this is some sony hate then I agree with the first sentence I wrote

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ps360 View Post
    because fanboys
    Lol, sounds like the most nintendo products, like every Mario/Zelda game released the past 15 years.

    But either way, I don't see why Gauss is overreacting to a 1-2 second difference, and judging by the vids... It really doesn't look like it's been tested besides the 2 Vitas. It's like running 2 ps3's with the same game, 1 being PSN and the other being disc form.. Just depends how quickly and fast your machine is running, and how big the game is.

    It's not a big deal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ps360 View Post
    because fanboys
    Seriously, sometimes I really wish you ran your own business or something. Just something simple where you were releasing some product or providing some service so you could understand how statements like this make no sense.

    I think you are confusing instantaneous success with a real, stable, sustainable business.

    Setting aside the Jupiter-sized issue that fanboys, by definition (even in Nintendo's case) will always represent a small (but vocal) minority of your business (the "P1s of the P1s")... Fanboys are also not impervious to bullshit, even customers with dedicated brand loyalty will only tolerate deviations from their expectations for so long.

    You can't rely on fanboys to generate revenue for you long-term if you are intentionally releasing inferior products (which is implied by your response)

    Quote Originally Posted by Minarum View Post
    But either way, I don't see why Gauss is overreacting to a 1-2 second difference,
    Because if you convert the Yen to USD, I'm paying 100+ USD for a memory card that works worse than the game cartridge.

    I'm not saying this shown here holds any scientific merit, heck I'd argue anyone who implies it does needs to re-take Science 101.

    What I am saying is that everything about the memory card thing is slowly become one gigantic fiasco of bad choices and I've yet to even glimmer an upside.

    The closest I've gotten is "well, its going to reduce piracy," but you know what would have been better and cheaper? Internal memory with a Steam-esque cloud storage service for saves/game-data. It would have taken less money to develop and would be more effective at curbing piracy.

    Now I didn't have a huge problem with memory cards in theory, particularly when they said they would be flashed based. I was thinking "alright, Sony is going with an already standardized memory format, they can add a simple software level verification against an account/unit like every good DD service and boom! You have instant, cheap, and effective piracy counter-measures."

    I heard about the pricing and at first I was like "Well, I find it easier to believe Gamestop is fucking customers over because they got first dibs on pre-orders. They sucker a few soccer moms in right before xmas, then lower the prices and force people to work to get their money back." After all, its well documented that Gamestop is a pretty shady business.

    Even after I found out that it was converted JP prices I was a little hesitant to start getting upset, after all these prices could be influenced by something very sudden, such as the Thailand floods, that will be worked out in the next few months as Sony moves production facilities. Or, if Sony was artificially inflating the price, once 3rd parties start competing it will come down.

    This is like the 4th or 5th issue thats cropped up, and its officially gotten to the point where I no longer understand why they are using this format. Yes, this is not a scientific study, but a DLed game should operate faster... Thats one of the critical components to DLing it over getting a physical copy. Even if we want to say that this represents a 3rd std. dev. sample out (the 1% case) you are still going to average the difference between downloading and having a physical copy of the game being negligible.

    The fact that the last sentence is true is what is bothering me, because I can no longer rationally justify the choice of this format. None exists.

    Its clearly expensive, doesn't work any better than their cartridge format (or internal memory), and although based on a standardized format is not actually standardized... So Sony is in control of everything.

    On its own, none of these things are inherently a problem, its when we combine all 3 that I start saying "Ok, how was this a good decision on Sony's side or on the customer's side?"

    You can be as jaded, ignorant, and pessimistic about the issue as any die-hard Sony hater, but Sony isn't trying to fuck anybody over. THERE IS NO MONEY TO BE HAD IN THAT!

    Clearly whoever is making decisions shouldn't be making them though... Thats what I'm getting bent out of shape about. Unlike the Sony haters, I don't want the VITA to fail. Nintendo needs some real competition and I'm sick of playing games on my smart-phone, they only come in three flavors: Good for killing 10 minutes, a port of a good game on another console thats been ruined because of touch-screen, or some plate-deep touch-screen-spaz-out for Soccer moms who think Twilight is a good movie.

    I just don't see how Sony is going to get that success if something isn't done soon.
    Gauss's Piracy Uncertainty Principle: When you pirate a game, that act inherently changes the results of what is to come after your pirating. You can't make any statement with any certainty regarding what would have happened had you not pirated the game.


    Gauss's Rating Rationale:
    0-1: A game whose very existence is abhorrent to all things creative and intelligent.
    2-4: A just plain bad game.
    5-6: A game that has alot of mistakes, but is atleast playable and has some enjoyable sections. Good for a rent.
    7: An average game, should be played at some point
    8: A good game, should buy at some point
    9: A great game, day-one purchase
    10: A game that goes above and beyond the generation, its transcendent.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gauss View Post
    Because if you convert the Yen to USD, I'm paying 100+ USD for a memory card that works worse than the game cartridge.

    I'm not saying this shown here holds any scientific merit, heck I'd argue anyone who implies it does needs to re-take Science 101.

    What I am saying is that everything about the memory card thing is slowly become one gigantic fiasco of bad choices and I've yet to even glimmer an upside.

    The closest I've gotten is "well, its going to reduce piracy," but you know what would have been better and cheaper? Internal memory with a Steam-esque cloud storage service for saves/game-data. It would have taken less money to develop and would be more effective at curbing piracy.

    Now I didn't have a huge problem with memory cards in theory, particularly when they said they would be flashed based. I was thinking "alright, Sony is going with an already standardized memory format, they can add a simple software level verification against an account/unit like every good DD service and boom! You have instant, cheap, and effective piracy counter-measures."

    I heard about the pricing and at first I was like "Well, I find it easier to believe Gamestop is fucking customers over because they got first dibs on pre-orders. They sucker a few soccer moms in right before xmas, then lower the prices and force people to work to get their money back." After all, its well documented that Gamestop is a pretty shady business.

    Even after I found out that it was converted JP prices I was a little hesitant to start getting upset, after all these prices could be influenced by something very sudden, such as the Thailand floods, that will be worked out in the next few months as Sony moves production facilities. Or, if Sony was artificially inflating the price, once 3rd parties start competing it will come down.

    This is like the 4th or 5th issue thats cropped up, and its officially gotten to the point where I no longer understand why they are using this format. Yes, this is not a scientific study, but a DLed game should operate faster... Thats one of the critical components to DLing it over getting a physical copy. Even if we want to say that this represents a 3rd std. dev. sample out (the 1% case) you are still going to average the difference between downloading and having a physical copy of the game being negligible.

    The fact that the last sentence is true is what is bothering me, because I can no longer rationally justify the choice of this format. None exists.

    Its clearly expensive, doesn't work any better than their cartridge format (or internal memory), and although based on a standardized format is not actually standardized... So Sony is in control of everything.

    On its own, none of these things are inherently a problem, its when we combine all 3 that I start saying "Ok, how was this a good decision on Sony's side or on the customer's side?"

    You can be as jaded, ignorant, and pessimistic about the issue as any die-hard Sony hater, but Sony isn't trying to fuck anybody over. THERE IS NO MONEY TO BE HAD IN THAT!

    Clearly whoever is making decisions shouldn't be making them though... Thats what I'm getting bent out of shape about. Unlike the Sony haters, I don't want the VITA to fail. Nintendo needs some real competition and I'm sick of playing games on my smart-phone, they only come in three flavors: Good for killing 10 minutes, a port of a good game on another console thats been ruined because of touch-screen, or some plate-deep touch-screen-spaz-out for Soccer moms who think Twilight is a good movie.

    I just don't see how Sony is going to get that success if something isn't done soon.
    The price is going by retail prices on the market for standard SD cards. Like I said in another thread, the price will certainly drop to Amazon and Ebay standards pretty fast.

    As for Cartridge vs. downloaded/SD, is SD really that fast and reliable vs. a cartridge? I've never tested it myself, but cartridge has always had a pretty damn fast load time when it comes to gaming. As in, pretty damn instant. Even with the use of Hard drives and such, some games take a ton just to load up the game depending on the size of the game.

    With my example on Ps3 with PSN vs. disk form games, most of the time the HD wins. But in some case, it really doesn't matter and you don't see a difference in load time(ModNation Racers). Unless there is some form of new high speed technology being thrown into Sony's SD cards, I see both Cartridges and SD card taking about the same amount of time to load up. Since they potentially are the same thing. Just the SD card can hold your games and some saves.

    I just don't see this being a big deal when it comes to cartridges. Now if this was UMD, DVD, Blu-ray, or basic CD that has the same or better load time than a SD. I'd agree and think it's retarded whats going on.

    But atm the Cartridge holds the games you want to play on it's own like the old days. And SD holds your downloads, save files, data needed for cartridges to work, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gauss View Post
    Fanboys are also not impervious to bullshit, even customers with dedicated brand loyalty will only tolerate deviations from their expectations for so long.
    Tell that to apple, the god of bullshit and fanboy devotion.

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