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PS4 Codenamed Orbis; Will block used games

This is a discussion on PS4 Codenamed Orbis; Will block used games within the General PS3 Discussion forum, part of the Everything PlayStation; Originally Posted by Jakintosh This next console gen was dead on arrival. That's not where the customers and the money ...

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jakintosh View Post
    This next console gen was dead on arrival. That's not where the customers and the money are going. They need to think of a way to evolve gaming, not game consoles. The console format is dying. It should be gone in 5 years, and unless Sony and Microsoft have some real tricks up their sleeve, these consoles will be falling out of the gates. I've been a hardcore gamer and PlayStation guy for years, but I really don't think I'll be getting a next gen console, even though I work in the industry. I don't see any money (or customers) on consoles in the future, so I'm not going to focus on that platform.

    I guess we'll just have to wait and see.



    Nintendo will be the only one not burned in the ashes as far as i can see.


    massive third party support, no drm crap that prevents used discs, No Forced online to use Console, Nintendo IPs, Cool controller, 1080p Able, Etc.



    hell ill laugh my ass off if they manage to resurrect the gaming buisness again in the US.



    the only reason i would pay for a playstation if these rumors are true is to homebrew (then again it's a PC-style archetecture and i already have a PC, whats the fucking point?)

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    They won't make it so used games don't work. It'd kill them, especially if one company doesn't follow suit. The games would have to all be Triple A to prevent 99% of gamers just switching to a non-used game locked console.
    Also, online passes suck right now. If they choose to de-region lock the online pass, I could come to accept it. But as far as they are region locked its a bad idea. It just makes it even more difficult for people to buy games when they are overseas. (Yes, I am aware it only affects a small portion of the demographic, but still damn annoying)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lasombra View Post
    They won't make it so used games don't work.
    sony patented the used games not working once used idea.


    http://articles.latimes.com/2006/jul...ness/fi-sony10


    just throwin that out there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ps360 View Post
    sony patented the used games not working once used idea.


    Furor Over Sony Patent - Los Angeles Times


    just throwin that out there.
    Thats perfectly fine, but patenting the idea and actually putting it into practice are two different things.
    By killing the used game market your effectively making the item valueless. They, meaning whoever does make it, would have to effectively lessen how much the game sells for because the majority of people will not buy a $60 paper weight. The item cannot be resold.
    Granted there are exceptions. Collectors won't care since they will never resell their stuff; the same with completists.

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    Never really good to name drop in a negative way just to let you know. On topic, that would suck if that were to be true. It would definitely kill used game sales which would hurt the business for people who are less fortunate (or just smarter) to be able to pick specific games up on release. I would not be a fan of that.

    As an off topic side note, I would hate to see them switch to all digital games. If they did this to cut down on costs or whatever, then they should in turn cut down the price as a HUGE part of buying a game is the experience of opening a package, looking at the manual, having something physical to display/pick up. IMO, a digital copy is worth half the price of a physical, and that's asking a lot.






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    This whole used games thing is getting out of hand so what are people ment to do with there games now throw them out...i think gen 4 can go to hell i'm retiring at ps3 360 gen if this shit continues.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drjackel666 View Post
    This whole used games thing is getting out of hand so what are people ment to do with there games now throw them out...i think gen 4 can go to hell i'm retiring at ps3 360 gen if this shit continues.
    Go old school and garage hunt for some sweet SNES/Genesis gen games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by drjackel666 View Post
    This whole used games thing is getting out of hand so what are people ment to do with there games now throw them out...i think gen 4 can go to hell i'm retiring at ps3 360 gen if this shit continues.
    ^^^^^^^This. It's like Sony and Microsoft are pleased with all the money we as gamers reluctantly spend to unlock or add-on stuff to our $60+ games we buy every day. I've defintely been getting tired of all these stupid new ways they're trying to make money: Online Pass, Day-1 DLC, $15 to access items that are already on the disc. I have no problem stopping my "Shut up and take my Money!" attitude toward new games and systems if this continues.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ac3dUd3- View Post
    to the OP, I already know this is fake without even looking. why do you ask?

    Well because of how the ps3 is now and you can play used/new on as many accounts as you want. So if they go backwards in tech for the ps4 its suicide for the product and the company. No1 will buy it and keep playing the ps3.

    And im pretty sure sony is not that stupid. The majority of gamers cant afford more then 1-2 new games a month ( sitting at $60 EU/US or $100 AUS ). Also I believe (not 100% sure here) that there is laws or some shit to say that we have a right to return a good that we are not satisfied with if we feel ripped off. Unless of course it says no refunds etc. AUS has numerous departments for this sort of thing like the ACCC, department of fair trading etc
    This^

    Also mate like others have said, don't name drop in a negative way. There's no need for it.


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    Even with everyone being in denial, I say why wouldn't they do this feature? It's been happening all around us for years, Steam, Online Passes & all that crap I mean come on open your eyes. It will happen one way or another but IMO I hope this spikes the industry in a bad way because these corporations need to know what's up, this is about fun, gaming..fun.

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    Theres two ways in my book (may be more) to block used games. First have a code like pcs to prevent used games. Second have a game console and pc go disc-less. The second option wont happen this upcoming generation of consoles. It most likely to happen on PS5 and Xbox 1440. Wont happen till late 2020's. In which everyone would have to buy the games online through game company's networks systems or developer sites.
    Last edited by Timo Marrinsbane; 03-29-2012 at 12:25 AM.

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    heres an interesting little curve ball i found this morning

    Used Games Aren't the Problem - GameSpot.com


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    i guess next gen is the last gen for gaming -_-
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    looks like ill be buying games when they are in the bargain bin

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    honestly tho i agree with a lot of the posters here saying that this might be ther last gen assuming this were to become true. After the fail the wii was (imo of course) I don't think i'll be buying a nintendo console anymore, and i'm honestly not sure if I would buy into a console that had such restrictions. All this news and rumors and crap just makes me happy the next gen hopefully won't be coming out for a few more years. Also if gaming goes all digital it will for sure be the end for me for 3 major reasons: 1) I live in Canada and here we get bandwidth capped up the ass so downloading a few games a month for instance would NOT be kind to me 2) Digital games are WAY overpriced compared to their physical counterparts and your effectively getting less and 3) I wouldn't be able to resell them but i guess i wouldn't be able to anyways with the way things are going lol


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    Interesting article orange-vision.
    I don't understand why they would try and alienate so many of their loyal user base by doing this, just for the sake of money. If you don't keep your audience it's gonna cost your company a shit load more than the sale of a few used games. The film industry doesn't have this problem and they cost more to produce than most games (I'd imagine...) and they can sell DVD's and Blu-Rays for relatively cheaply, certainly cheaper than games are sold at.

    Who knows, at this point, I guess we will only find this out when more actual information is revealed about the next gen of games and consoles I guess... If news is good, they will retain customers (including myself), if news is bad, they screw themselves over.

    Although there will inevitably be 2 iterations of the 'Orbis' one WITH the ability to play used games that is less reliable and will overheat and have a high death ratio, and then a better equipped, better built slim model with a bigger hard drive that DOESN'T allow this ability....
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    [FONT=arial, sans-serif]this is just a rumor and speculations and nothing about has been confirmed yet [/FONT]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Orange-Vision View Post
    I as the conusmer could care less about the developers problems, I just buy their games.
    Yup, that is true... Although I wouldn't be so short sighted, if they aren't permitted to get proper compensation for their work, eventually they won't make games anymore. Which will leave you without games to buy.

    I'm also not asking you to care, I am asking you to acknowledge their fundamental right to ensure they are properly compensated for their work. If you don't think its proper compensation, then don't digest their work.

    My problem is when people assume that means its not a problem to undermine the process by attaining their work through alternative means. I am not going to say you should be punished or even that its unethical/immoral (piracy, for example, is actually a necessary check), but you can't have your cake and eat it too either.

    You can't damage developers pockets then say "HOLY SHIT! THIS IS WRONG!" when they try to implement something to ensure they get paid. There are rules to them ensuring, but that balance needs to exist and they have rights just as you do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orange-Vision View Post
    You can't use the argument "o well without online passes they lose money and would shut down." sure developers lose money from used games, but used games have been going on for what, like the last 10 years+ easily? And yet gaming is still a massive, MASSIVE industry.
    Actually I can, there has been no time in that "10+ years" where studios weren't closing. The industry is massive, yes, but individual studios can still suffer.

    I also think you are confusing my point too... I am not saying this is about them shutting down or not. I am talking about their fundamental rights to be properly compensated.

    You have rights beyond being able to eat, breathe, and obtain shelter, but technically that's all you need to sustain yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orange-Vision View Post
    People defending the devlopers are shooting themselves in the foot and are basically saying there okay with spending more to get less, which I wouldn't give a shit about if it didn't affect me. Unfortunately as its being hinted, its going to screw us all over.
    I have never bought a game with an Online Pass and had to spend more for less.

    These "hints" aren't "hints" really... Its actually some pretty crazy unconfirmed rumors.

    Critical thinking 101: Wild claims need robust evidence. I see no robust evidence.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orange-Vision View Post
    I'm just voicing my opinion and you can all accept or reject it, but then you had dr-mayus and his troll brigade come and start attacking me, so the hell with the douche.
    I have never sent Mayus or any troll brigade against you.

    I don't have a troll brigade and I speak on this board on my own behalf and advocate what I choose to advocate. People can disagree or agree with me as they see fit, but whatever actions they choose to take are their own and not directed or dictated by me.

    Please drop the martyr complex too. There is no conspiracy against you or the side of the opinion you are advocating, you started this thread calling people out. The reaction is warranted. You can't get all butt-hurt when someone says you're being a dick when you open up your post by calling people stupid who disagree with you and saying people are trolls who think differently.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nookie_Egg View Post
    Just so you know, Sony still owns your PS3. This was part of the bullshit surrounding the Jailbreak fiasco a few months ago. They claim that it remains the property of Sony and the end user is essentially loaning it off them. Off Topic but just pointing it out.
    Not true.

    The bullshit surrounding the Jailbreak fiasco has to do with distribution and your implied rights to the code that runs internal to the unit.

    You own your PS3, Sony isn't "loaning it to you."

    Quote Originally Posted by Ps360 View Post
    notice how this works
    SCE DevNet
    I did notice, that site has been up for awhile.

    I am not sure if this is confirmation though, for all I know this rumor is made up and the codename was picked because that is what Sony called this dev site.

    I am going to be honest... I don't believe this rumor at all. This is way too stupid to be true.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ps360 View Post
    I know, its weird SCE doesn't offer a development kit for the Xbox 720... Its almost like they are competitors or something...

    Quote Originally Posted by Orange-Vision View Post
    heres an interesting little curve ball i found this morning

    Used Games Aren't the Problem - GameSpot.com
    Well, this is again a bit extreme.

    It always bugs me when these articles are written because they undermine a wholesale problem by subjecting issues to a "yes or no" scale.

    The reality is Used games are a problem, they just aren't the only problem. Same goes for piracy, its a problem, just not the only problem.

    The other issue I have with analysis like this is it functions under the assumption that the route employed is the only route to solve it. As I've said before there are pro-active and re-active solutions to things, and in this case the reactive solution is putting a bandaid on a gunshot wound. Sure it will work short-term, but long-term you're still bleeding and have a bullet inside you.

    This is why Valve's strategy works, but Online Passes won't. Valve's strategy combats used games and piracy alike, and is technically DRM. Difference is Valve adopts a solution that encourages purchases through service.

    I have hopes for next generation still because all these rumors are spread around without confirmation yet, and I also am not too keen on the Wii U because its not validated to me it is without fault.

    Its not like the public maintains a rational demeanor on things.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ps360 View Post
    no drm crap that prevents used discs, No Forced online to use Console Etc
    Ok, from what I can remember, you do tend to salivate over Steam ... This means : online purchasing, one-time only use of key, pretty much what Xbox and PS3 are going towards. In fact most people have a good view on steam (I know I do), so why so much hating about this ? (please don't say price as they are as bad as the others, except during the sales)

    In respects to used games, can't remember when I last bought one as everyone in europe tends to take massive profit (they cost about 10 less than retail price, so that just covers the online pass - yipee). Once it has been on the market a bit, prices drop anyway - which is when I buy them.

    So in keeping Blu-Ray, you will still be able to get good offers off the Internet, even for not-used games. If Rumours about Xbox720 are true, Microsoft will circumvent everyone and just make stupid amounts of money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gauss View Post
    Yup, that is true... Although I wouldn't be so short sighted, if they aren't permitted to get proper compensation for their work, eventually they won't make games anymore. Which will leave you without games to buy.

    I'm also not asking you to care, I am asking you to acknowledge their fundamental right to ensure they are properly compensated for their work. If you don't think its proper compensation, then don't digest their work.

    My problem is when people assume that means its not a problem to undermine the process by attaining their work through alternative means. I am not going to say you should be punished or even that its unethical/immoral (piracy, for example, is actually a necessary check), but you can't have your cake and eat it too either.

    You can't damage developers pockets then say "HOLY SHIT! THIS IS WRONG!" when they try to implement something to ensure they get paid. There are rules to them ensuring, but that balance needs to exist and they have rights just as you do.



    Actually I can, there has been no time in that "10+ years" where studios weren't closing. The industry is massive, yes, but individual studios can still suffer.

    I also think you are confusing my point too... I am not saying this is about them shutting down or not. I am talking about their fundamental rights to be properly compensated.

    You have rights beyond being able to eat, breathe, and obtain shelter, but technically that's all you need to sustain yourself.



    I have never bought a game with an Online Pass and had to spend more for less.

    These "hints" aren't "hints" really... Its actually some pretty crazy unconfirmed rumors.

    Critical thinking 101: Wild claims need robust evidence. I see no robust evidence.



    I have never sent Mayus or any troll brigade against you.

    I don't have a troll brigade and I speak on this board on my own behalf and advocate what I choose to advocate. People can disagree or agree with me as they see fit, but whatever actions they choose to take are their own and not directed or dictated by me.

    Please drop the martyr complex too. There is no conspiracy against you or the side of the opinion you are advocating, you started this thread calling people out. The reaction is warranted. You can't get all butt-hurt when someone says you're being a dick when you open up your post by calling people stupid who disagree with you and saying people are trolls who think differently.



    Not true.

    The bullshit surrounding the Jailbreak fiasco has to do with distribution and your implied rights to the code that runs internal to the unit.

    You own your PS3, Sony isn't "loaning it to you."



    I did notice, that site has been up for awhile.

    I am not sure if this is confirmation though, for all I know this rumor is made up and the codename was picked because that is what Sony called this dev site.

    I am going to be honest... I don't believe this rumor at all. This is way too stupid to be true.



    I know, its weird SCE doesn't offer a development kit for the Xbox 720... Its almost like they are competitors or something...



    Well, this is again a bit extreme.

    It always bugs me when these articles are written because they undermine a wholesale problem by subjecting issues to a "yes or no" scale.

    The reality is Used games are a problem, they just aren't the only problem. Same goes for piracy, its a problem, just not the only problem.

    The other issue I have with analysis like this is it functions under the assumption that the route employed is the only route to solve it. As I've said before there are pro-active and re-active solutions to things, and in this case the reactive solution is putting a bandaid on a gunshot wound. Sure it will work short-term, but long-term you're still bleeding and have a bullet inside you.

    This is why Valve's strategy works, but Online Passes won't. Valve's strategy combats used games and piracy alike, and is technically DRM. Difference is Valve adopts a solution that encourages purchases through service.

    I have hopes for next generation still because all these rumors are spread around without confirmation yet, and I also am not too keen on the Wii U because its not validated to me it is without fault.

    Its not like the public maintains a rational demeanor on things.
    I never meant YOU in specific did, i've don't even ever remember seeing you around the site until now. If you read my original post, I mention that in a PREVIOUS thread I started, I was attacked by a dr-mayus and a few other people for my opinions on online passes and what not, it has nothing to do with you in any way whatsoever, so I thought I'd call him out as the original article does support my previous theory about how the war on used games would end up getting worse and screwing the consumer over further, which is the original point I was attacked for. I feel strongly about my opinion as i'm very passionate about gaming and seeing the way the industry is going can be extremely upsetting. That said, I'm hoping everyone past this post can move on from the personal attacks and please try to stick to the actual topic at hand here, thank you.

    In your comment where you make mention my comment on more for less, the issue extends beyond online passes wether or not I mentioned it before with the ever growing issue of DLC. Take street fighter x tekken for example, where you had a bunch of characters already on the disc that they could have easily included in the original product, but decided to jip everyone an extra $20 to get. To me that is bullshit, I'm okay with dlc if it came out after the fact as a later thought but blatently putting it in when it could easily have been included it just extremely cheap and greedy. This is another issue thats becoming worse and worse and day 1 dlc is becoming more and more prominent, what used to cost $60 for a new and complete game now ends up costing upwards of $100 for what used to just be included. This raises another interesting point about how the companies are further screwing us by not even selling us completed products upon release, but then you have people complaining the devs are not getting enough money meanwhile this big spike in dlc i'm sure is bringing in a large number of revenue.


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