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Finally. Proof that there are Devs with the right mindset.

This is a discussion on Finally. Proof that there are Devs with the right mindset. within the General PS3 Discussion forum, part of the Everything PlayStation; If it wasn't for the difficult trophies, I might have not tried to beat any games on the hardest mode. ...

  1. #21
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    If it wasn't for the difficult trophies, I might have not tried to beat any games on the hardest mode. I used to blow through games beating it on the easy/normal setting, but after playing games and beating them on the hardest modes, I've now started to play games on hard/hardest off-break...and not just on trophy games (except when it comes to fighting games...I'm terrible at fighting games).

    I always believe developers who put in trophies did it to challenge us, partially because the whole trophy system is a bit ridiculous, but also to FULLY play the game. I mean, what the point of plating a game if your done at the half-way point? (Trine 2, I'm looking at you). Trophies should be hard, not to satisfy some ego trip, but to fully utilize a game. If it means beating a game 10 times, then so be it (Heavy Rain, anyone?).

    I admit, even I used to do it just to get a quick plat now and then. But what's the point if not the challenge? If they make the MGS4 trophies insanely hard, I'm going have a fun time trying to get it, moreso if it was just filled with "beat the game on easy" for a gold. Just enjoy the challenge and enjoy the game. That's more important than plating.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lasombra View Post
    All difficulty trophies do is downgrade how good the developer thinks their game is. If their game is good enough then people don't need to have a trophy to play it multiple times, but by putting in difficulty trophies it's saying 'we don't think you'll play this game again unless we have this shiny trophy at the end of the rainbow for you.'
    If someone replays a game on a different difficulty for the sole purpose of a trophy, that speaks as much to a problem resident within the mind of the player as it does for this theoretical problem with the developer. If someone performs any stupid task for the sole purpose of a trophy, blaming the developer and ONLY the developer is a crutch and a cop-out -- the developer doesn't sit behind you with a gun to your head and say "you'd better perform this task or I'll blow your brains out".

    Personally, I play a substantial number of RPGs, and I'll play most of them twice (at least) -- once without a guide of any sort, and once with a guide in front of me so I can go back and catch all the events/sidequests/whatever I missed the first time through. One allows me to experience the game with a completely fresh perspective, and one allows me to experience the entire breadth of the experience that the developer has to offer.

    ....

    I don't object to games having multiple difficulty levels. I don't object to trophies based on playing the game on a particular difficulty level. That being said, I'd prefer difficulty trophies that work similar to Enslaved: Odyssey to the West (to use a game I have platted) where you can simply play the game once on the highest difficulty and you get credit for the lower difficulties. I also prefer when the game has all the difficulty levels unlocked from the opening jump.

    At the same time, this is an issue where consumers can vote with their feet and their wallets. If you don't like how a particular developer goes about their business, don't patronize them. If enough people feel the same way and act accordingly, the developer gets to choose between evolution or death.
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    I have mixed feelings on difficulty trophies. I don't mind them too much when the game lets you keep all your stuff when you start on a new difficulty and I also really like the way Tales of Graces f did theirs where it just required you to beat the final boss on said difficulty, not the entire game. There are times though it seems like the hardest difficulty in a game takes away the way it was meant to be played where all it comes down to is trying to do minimal damage to an enemy and then running away so it loses track of you before it kills you in 1-2 hits and then start the whole process over again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by njdevil View Post
    As a couple of other contributors to this thread have pointed out: If you don't like playing on Hard difficulty for a trophy, DON'T DO IT. That being said, the idea that developers should stop doing this because you don't like it is obscene...
    All of my comments have been in relation to trophies. If they want to make harder difficulties, that's fine. But in my personal opinion, they shouldn't have trophies tied to those difficulties. At most, there should be one for Normal. So a game like Uncharted 2 or 3, you can't play it on Very Easy and get the plat. But I also don't think you should have to play on Delta, Crushing, Insanity, Veteran or Hardcore to get the . Some people, like me, want to play a game once, maybe twice for story reasons, then move on to the next one. I feel that multiple difficulty trophies is a cheap way for a developer to try and get people to stick around and play their game longer.

    Quote Originally Posted by njdevil View Post
    At the same time, this is an issue where consumers can vote with their feet and their wallets. If you don't like how a particular developer goes about their business, don't patronize them. If enough people feel the same way and act accordingly, the developer gets to choose between evolution or death.
    And this is exactly what I do. Believe me, I have no shortage of games to play. But when a developer chooses to put trophies in their game that I don't feel should be there (MP or difficulty trophies), I choose not to add their game to my backlog. The point of this thread was just to point out that there are finally devs who are choosing what I feel is the proper mindset. Include more difficulty levels, by all means, so people can challenge themselves. But the idea that the platinum should only be for the hardest of the hardcore players is exactly the kind of mindset that people here and elsewhere claim that we shouldn't have, making it an e-peen contest. I don't care how "hard" or "challenging" the platinums are that any other player has. I get them for myself, and me alone. If I can't get it, then the game isn't worth as much to me. It gets a pass, or I wait for extreme price drops. Simple.

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    I think there should be difficulty trophies as I would have never tried to play games on the hardest difficulty otherwise and it gives you abit of a challenge which is what the platinum is supposed to be about so stop looking for shortcut ways to get platinums and work for them. If you don't want to play on all the difficulties then you don't deserve the plat and just get the trophies that you do want to do. It is in no way a cheap way to get people to play the game longer, it is a way to get people to attempt the hardest difficulty which they wouldn't do otherwise and give people a challenge.

    So I am for keeping difficulty related trophies also because I like buying a game and having to do multiple playthroughs because it makes the game last longer. I hate it when I complete a game in a day, it feels like a waste of money.

    Earn them platinum trophies the proper way and stop moaning.

    p.s I do think the difficulty trophies should stack though like if you complete it on the Hardest setting first then you shouldn't have to go down the difficulties because there's no point in that if you can already do the game on Hard. And I don't mind having to unlock the Hardest setting at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AizawaYuuichi View Post
    Some people, like me, want to play a game once, maybe twice for story reasons, then move on to the next one. I feel that multiple difficulty trophies is a cheap way for a developer to try and get people to stick around and play their game longer.
    Then don't play the game more than once or twice and don't play it on higher difficulties. If the developers make a trophy for that sort of thing, are you really such a slave to an shiny object that it will impact your behavior? Are you so weak-willed that you'll do damn near anything a developer wants you to because he dangles an imaginary reward for said action in front of you?

    At this point, the problem isn't the developer. The problem is you, particularly your priorities and values. If the Platinum Trophy is so important to you that a developer can make you do all sorts of stupid things just to have that reassurance to your self-esteem, you've got greater problems than I (or anyone else) can address in a simple discussion thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by AizawaYuuichi View Post
    And this is exactly what I do. Believe me, I have no shortage of games to play. But when a developer chooses to put trophies in their game that I don't feel should be there (MP or difficulty trophies), I choose not to add their game to my backlog.
    And that's completely fair and completely fine. Personally, I do the same. At the same time, I don't expect developers to change around everything they do just to satisfy my particular tastes. That kind of thinking smacks of massive egos and narcism to the extreme. Do what makes you happy, and don't get your panties in a wad about what everyone else does to make themselves happy so long as it doesn't interfere with your own personal happiness. There's plenty of joy to go around for everyone. If someone else is willing to put in the extra effort to get a Platinum that you are not, and that sort of thing really offends you, I don't know what else to say.

    And have you thought that perhaps a developer might put in trophies for storyline progression or higher difficulties or online play or what-have-you because it's a relatively convienent way for them to track how people play their games? That it's really simple for a developer to check how many people have played their games, how many people have done certain things, et cetera, simply through a site like this one? That they can use those numbers to refine future products, downplaying features that prove less popular and adding more of what seems to resonate with their customers?

    Quote Originally Posted by AizawaYuuichi View Post
    But the idea that the platinum should only be for the hardest of the hardcore players is exactly the kind of mindset that people here and elsewhere claim that we shouldn't have, making it an e-peen contest.
    Let's look at it from the opposite point of view: Why should someone who does the bare minimum on the lowest possible difficulty get the same outcome as someone who puts in more time and effort into beating the game, including beating the game thoroughly enough that they can do so on a higher difficulty than the casual browser who plays through once and sets it down? There's equality of opportunity already -- everything else being equal, you have the same opportunity to play on a higher difficulty level instead of moving onto another title. There doesn't need to be equality of outcome, or outcomes become meaningless.

    If one defines a Platinum Trophy as "I've done (virtually) everything there is to do in this game", it shouldn't be for the "casual" player but for the "hardcore" player instead. If everyone gets a Platinum Trophy, similar to how everyone gets a turn at bat in Little League no matter how craptacular a player they are, similar to how everyone gets Certificates of Participation and Gold Stars and all that other rot, what does it really mean in the first place?
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    Yea but sometimes you don't experience the whole game without playing the hardest difficulty...

    I just started a new Force Unleashed game on hardest difficulty again, and it is a totally different experience than the others...
    And I like trophies for difficulty settings, it makes you a better player when you finally beat it.. also if it means more singleplayer trophies and less multiplayer ones, im totally in!

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    I dont mind it one bit myself. If i enjoy playing the game then i will play it over and over to try to get the plat. If i dont like the game as much i beat it once and then to the back of the pile it goes for me till i want to try and beat it again on the hardest.

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    So if I am reading some of this post right, Some of y'all want the difficulty trophies to stay to prove something and some of y'all want the difficulty trophies to go away because it's pointless. How about bout we keep the difficulty trophies right but if you do play it on the hardest level, only that trophy unlocks but then you would have to go back and play each difficulty to get those trophies. The big kicker in all of that would be you don't get to carry over any weapons or special abilities. Some of y'all are basically saying how we should be playing a game or trying to call us losers for not wanting to do the hardest level for a .

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    Quote Originally Posted by jay_hawk View Post
    So if I am reading some of this post right, Some of y'all want the difficulty trophies to stay to prove something and some of y'all want the difficulty trophies to go away because it's pointless. How about bout we keep the difficulty trophies right but if you do play it on the hardest level, only that trophy unlocks but then you would have to go back and play each difficulty to get those trophies. The big kicker in all of that would be you don't get to carry over any weapons or special abilities. Some of y'all are basically saying how we should be playing a game or trying to call us losers for not wanting to do the hardest level for a .
    We're not telling you how to play a game. No one's forcing people to do the hardest difficulty in games. I just think that you should have to do it for the and if you don't want to do hardest difficulty then you just don't get the plat. simple. Platinum's aren't everything, the whole purpose in them is to be a challenge for gamers to achieve. If you don't dedicate the time to do the game on hardest difficulty then you shouldn't get the plat and I think its much better when less people have the plat due to hard trophies. It makes getting it feel so much nicer knowing that you tried really hard to get it

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    Quote Originally Posted by parkerdip View Post
    We're not telling you how to play a game. No one's forcing people to do the hardest difficulty in games. I just think that you should have to do it for the and if you don't want to do hardest difficulty then you just don't get the plat. simple. Platinum's aren't everything, the whole purpose in them is to be a challenge for gamers to achieve. If you don't dedicate the time to do the game on hardest difficulty then you shouldn't get the plat and I think its much better when less people have the plat due to hard trophies. It makes getting it feel so much nicer knowing that you tried really hard to get it
    This.

    A Platinum trophy should be a challenge and an achievement. I prefer trophy difficulties to stack like Mass Effect 2 or 3, but equally, I don't mind New Game+ and starting out at a higher level with better gear from your first playthrough like Dead Space, Darksiders or Demon's Souls.

    I'm not a huge fan of replaying single-player campaigns but if a game like Uncharted or inFamous is good enough, I'm happy to play it two or three times.

    Conversely, I'd prefer to complete the God of War HD Collections in one playthrough because they're not fantastic by today's standards. They're not interesting enough to replay twice (which I'll need to do) and I just want them done and dusted before moving on to a better game.

    I also don't mind it when a game doesn't have a difficulty setting at all like Assassin's Creed 2 where you can just relax and enjoy the game without the frustation of potentially difficult combat. Equally, an easy game can become boring quickly when you can breeze through without a challenge.

    In the end, you can't please everyone all the time and achieving a Platinum trophy should present a challenge. AAA games often deserve more than one playthrough. Crappier games are best completed in one go.

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    I agree platinum trophies should be a challenge, but it shouldn't include stupid trophies that force me to do multiple playthroughs. If it comes with a trophy for beating it on the hardest difficulty, fine. However, don't force me to beat the game once in order to unlock that difficulty first. It should be available from the start. With the amount of AAA games coming out each year, people have more options and games available to play. They're no longer bound by a few titles so forcing them to play a specific game longer for a few stupid trophies is a bad thing in my opinion.

    They (developers) need to start realizing that trophies are here to stay and weather or not people like them, they do affect how many people play their games along with which ones they purchase.
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    Not bad at all, but personally, I think that the idea behind earning a is that it should be a challenge, or at least be awarded after doing everything possible in the game. This would make it easier to obtain and, in turn, it'd finish up being less awesome and/or valuable, but well, that's just me and the way I play and think of trophies. I'm sure those who buy this game will finish up appreciating the gesture anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jay_hawk View Post
    Having to play a game 3 times on each difficulty for a is ridiculously silly. There is nothing to really prove unless you think people will stroke your ego more and if you need a filling of accomplishment through the internet, then you live a sad life.
    says he who has a high plat rate with many multiple playthoughs

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    This is sweet, because games like the Uncharteds drive me crazy considering you have to play through it once to unlock crushing. If it wasn’t for that you could totally get every trophy in one play through.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Denaratuck View Post
    I agree platinum trophies should be a challenge, but it shouldn't include stupid trophies that force me to do multiple playthroughs. If it comes with a trophy for beating it on the hardest difficulty, fine. However, don't force me to beat the game once in order to unlock that difficulty first. It should be available from the start.
    Agreed. Difficulty stacking is the solution, as long as the toughest difficulty is achievable from the start.

    Insanity mode in Mass Effect, Crushing in Uncharted, Veteran in Modern Warfare / Black Ops and Delta in Crysis are tough but fair. I'm not so sure all games can make that claim, like World at War where you need some idea of how to get through the level before tackling it on Uber-Hard.

    New Game+ should only be an option if it offers something the other difficulty levels don't, like a God Mode (eg unlimited Magic outfit in God of War) and it should be optional for the Plat. Padding playthroughs as a way of making up for a short single-player campaign isn't ideal.
    Last edited by ant1th3s1s; 07-18-2012 at 01:28 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by njdevil View Post
    Then don't play the game more than once or twice and don't play it on higher difficulties. If the developers make a trophy for that sort of thing, are you really such a slave to an shiny object that it will impact your behavior? Are you so weak-willed that you'll do damn near anything a developer wants you to because he dangles an imaginary reward for said action in front of you?

    At this point, the problem isn't the developer. The problem is you, particularly your priorities and values. If the Platinum Trophy is so important to you that a developer can make you do all sorts of stupid things just to have that reassurance to your self-esteem, you've got greater problems than I (or anyone else) can address in a simple discussion thread.
    Wow... way to take a discussion thread and turn it into fodder for an unjustified personal attack. We're on a trophy site because I assume we all like getting trophies. If you don't like getting trophies, then you may be on the wrong site, just saying.
    And I just got finished saying that trophies shouldn't be about e-peen, then you insinuate that I need them to feed my self-esteem? ... How is your reading comprehension? Seriously... could you stop attacking me and just present your viewpoints?

    And that's completely fair and completely fine. Personally, I do the same. At the same time, I don't expect developers to change around everything they do just to satisfy my particular tastes. That kind of thinking smacks of massive egos and narcism to the extreme. Do what makes you happy, and don't get your panties in a wad about what everyone else does to make themselves happy so long as it doesn't interfere with your own personal happiness. There's plenty of joy to go around for everyone. If someone else is willing to put in the extra effort to get a Platinum that you are not, and that sort of thing really offends you, I don't know what else to say.
    I never said I expect devs to change. I said I'd like to see them change. I hardly think changing the way they think about creating trophy lists could be considered "change around everything they do". And I appreciate when they do. That's all. I don't care what anyone else does to make themselves happy. And I love this, another attack on me dragged out of thin air, and for what reason? What others do to achieve a platinum does not offend me. I couldn't care less.

    And have you thought that perhaps a developer might put in trophies for storyline progression or higher difficulties or online play or what-have-you because it's a relatively convienent way for them to track how people play their games? That it's really simple for a developer to check how many people have played their games, how many people have done certain things, et cetera, simply through a site like this one? That they can use those numbers to refine future products, downplaying features that prove less popular and adding more of what seems to resonate with their customers?
    Yes, I am aware that they do that. I have seen numerous articles and interviews with devs and analysts coming out saying that gamers are not happy with multiplayer trophies. This is most likely a direct result of people buying games with multiplayer shoved in them, then ignoring those portions completely. Or the organization of boosting groups to get the trophies then trade the game in and be done with it. That means those people won't be buying whatever multiplayer DLC the company might release for their game. Hence the power of voting with your wallet, which we already went over.

    Let's look at it from the opposite point of view: Why should someone who does the bare minimum on the lowest possible difficulty get the same outcome as someone who puts in more time and effort into beating the game, including beating the game thoroughly enough that they can do so on a higher difficulty than the casual browser who plays through once and sets it down? There's equality of opportunity already -- everything else being equal, you have the same opportunity to play on a higher difficulty level instead of moving onto another title. There doesn't need to be equality of outcome, or outcomes become meaningless.
    Again, we're assuming that trophies have some value, that it has to mean something that one person gets it and another doesn't. I'm just OCD. I like as many of my games to be at 100% or have a platinum as I can manage, in the amount of time I have to play games. My complaint is a personal one, I realize that, and one that is shared by many others as evidenced by this thread. Yet you're choosing to turn all this into an attack against me, which is completely uncalled for. Who said anything about doing the bare minimum? I spent 190+ hours on Skyrim getting the platinum trophy. I didn't play on the hardest difficulty, nor did I use a guide to run straight through the game as fast as possible. I took my time and enjoyed the game, doing everything I could find to be done. Since there were no trophies for difficulty levels, I was able to enjoy my time in Skyrim, while still being challenged at times by large mobs. I also spent 100+ hours playing through Kingdoms of Amalur on the hardest difficulty level. And again, took my time doing many, many sidequests that were way beyond trophy requirements. However, that playthrough didn't need to be as long as it was, and was only dragged out by the arbitrary requirement that I play it on Hard for one of the trophies. You seem to be equating "wanting no difficulty trophies" with "casual gamers". I have beaten quite a few games on the hardest difficulty, more recently than in years past. However, I do not see this as challenging, or a mark of the "hardcore". It is merely an exercise in patience. Things take longer to accomplish, enemies take longer to kill. I just completed Deus Ex: HR on Hard, while not killing anyone or setting off any alarms. That was challenging. But not the same kind of challenging as a "CoD, one shot you're dead, 10 shots to kill the enemy" type of difficulty level. In my opinion, that is pointless, and just meant to extend the gameplay for those who want the trophies. I feel gamers would be better served by trophies that require actual skill, rather than excess amounts of time to keep replaying from a checkpoint until they don't get killed by nearly endless waves of enemies. Things like the stunts in inFamous or the Steel Fist trophies in the Uncharted games are, I feel, worthy trophy requirements.

    If one defines a Platinum Trophy as "I've done (virtually) everything there is to do in this game", it shouldn't be for the "casual" player but for the "hardcore" player instead. If everyone gets a Platinum Trophy, similar to how everyone gets a turn at bat in Little League no matter how craptacular a player they are, similar to how everyone gets Certificates of Participation and Gold Stars and all that other rot, what does it really mean in the first place?
    I don't think everyone defines a platinum that way. I mean heck, just look at Trine 2. You don't even need to complete the entire game to earn the platinum for it. A platinum just means you've completed all the requirements set out in the trophy list, the requirements being set by the developers. If "hardcore" gamers need the platinum trophy to indicate that "OMG! I beat this on Super Double Amazing Incognito Difficulty", because they aren't content with simply knowing that they can beat it, then I think "hardcore" gamers are the ones with self-esteem issues, not me. But to your point, doing "everything" in a game is different from beating it on the hardest difficulty level. How hard it is to kill enemies or to stay alive has no bearing on accomplishing objectives in-game. No, I don't believe in "everyone is equal and deserves a ribbon" mindsets, but I feel gamers would be better served by trophy lists based around skill objectives and requirements, rather than "how much patience do you have for extremely cheap A.I.?"

    Now, I kindly ask that if you have anything else to say to me, rather than any general comments on the topic of the thread... please refrain from any more personal attacks. Thank you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by njdevil View Post
    If someone replays a game on a different difficulty for the sole purpose of a trophy, that speaks as much to a problem resident within the mind of the player as it does for this theoretical problem with the developer. If someone performs any stupid task for the sole purpose of a trophy, blaming the developer and ONLY the developer is a crutch and a cop-out -- the developer doesn't sit behind you with a gun to your head and say "you'd better perform this task or I'll blow your brains out".

    Personally, I play a substantial number of RPGs, and I'll play most of them twice (at least) -- once without a guide of any sort, and once with a guide in front of me so I can go back and catch all the events/sidequests/whatever I missed the first time through. One allows me to experience the game with a completely fresh perspective, and one allows me to experience the entire breadth of the experience that the developer has to offer.

    ....

    I don't object to games having multiple difficulty levels. I don't object to trophies based on playing the game on a particular difficulty level. That being said, I'd prefer difficulty trophies that work similar to Enslaved: Odyssey to the West (to use a game I have platted) where you can simply play the game once on the highest difficulty and you get credit for the lower difficulties. I also prefer when the game has all the difficulty levels unlocked from the opening jump.

    At the same time, this is an issue where consumers can vote with their feet and their wallets. If you don't like how a particular developer goes about their business, don't patronize them. If enough people feel the same way and act accordingly, the developer gets to choose between evolution or death.
    Two points:

    1) There is no blaming, and even if people did blame the developers how would it be a cop out? Some people find getting trophies fun, and some people find getting platinums fun, and want to get as many as they can. Some games they find fun have insanely stupid trophies, and if the goal is to get the plat and only that one crazy trophy is left from getting it, yes the developers are putting a gun to the players head. They are saying jump through this stupid hoop for the prize because we know you want it.
    It's the differences between someone who takes getting trophies seriously and only getting them for fun, like the person who only plays catch for fun compared with the one who wants to go pro. It's neither a crutch nor a cop-out.

    2) Consumers can't vote with their feet and wallets because there is no conclusive way to tell if X people did not buy the game because of the trophies or because the game is just trash to begin with. Its also the reverse, they can't tell if the player bought the game because trophy list or if it was just cause they think the game is awesome.

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  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lasombra View Post
    2) Consumers can't vote with their feet and wallets because there is no conclusive way to tell if X people did not buy the game because of the trophies or because the game is just trash to begin with. Its also the reverse, they can't tell if the player bought the game because trophy list or if it was just cause they think the game is awesome.
    That is actually a really good point, thanks for bringing that to the thread. This is actually why I've thought about personally going to a developer's forum and letting them know, point blank, why I'm not buying their game, rather than just bad-mouthing whatever it is that I don't like. In the case of Mass Effect 3, I had every intention of going to Bioware's forums and telling them the mere inclusion of any MP component lost my purchase (though I'm lazy and never got around to it). Obviously, my $60 doesn't amount to much in the grand scheme of things, but I also realize that in the same way Nielsen ratings equate "1 real viewer = X theoretical viewers", that one person complaining about something online has to equate to some multiple of people who feel the same way but don't feel like complaining directly to the devs about it. Speaking out and communicating to the developers and publishers is every bit as important to bringing about change as simply not buying something you don't like, or refusing to support something you don't agree with.

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    Quote Originally Posted by njdevil View Post
    Then don't play the game more than once or twice and don't play it on higher difficulties. If the developers make a trophy for that sort of thing, are you really such a slave to an shiny object that it will impact your behavior? Are you so weak-willed that you'll do damn near anything a developer wants you to because he dangles an imaginary reward for said action in front of you?

    At this point, the problem isn't the developer. The problem is you, particularly your priorities and values. If the Platinum Trophy is so important to you that a developer can make you do all sorts of stupid things just to have that reassurance to your self-esteem, you've got greater problems than I (or anyone else) can address in a simple discussion thread.



    And that's completely fair and completely fine. Personally, I do the same. At the same time, I don't expect developers to change around everything they do just to satisfy my particular tastes. That kind of thinking smacks of massive egos and narcism to the extreme. Do what makes you happy, and don't get your panties in a wad about what everyone else does to make themselves happy so long as it doesn't interfere with your own personal happiness. There's plenty of joy to go around for everyone. If someone else is willing to put in the extra effort to get a Platinum that you are not, and that sort of thing really offends you, I don't know what else to say.

    And have you thought that perhaps a developer might put in trophies for storyline progression or higher difficulties or online play or what-have-you because it's a relatively convienent way for them to track how people play their games? That it's really simple for a developer to check how many people have played their games, how many people have done certain things, et cetera, simply through a site like this one? That they can use those numbers to refine future products, downplaying features that prove less popular and adding more of what seems to resonate with their customers?



    Let's look at it from the opposite point of view: Why should someone who does the bare minimum on the lowest possible difficulty get the same outcome as someone who puts in more time and effort into beating the game, including beating the game thoroughly enough that they can do so on a higher difficulty than the casual browser who plays through once and sets it down? There's equality of opportunity already -- everything else being equal, you have the same opportunity to play on a higher difficulty level instead of moving onto another title. There doesn't need to be equality of outcome, or outcomes become meaningless.

    If one defines a Platinum Trophy as "I've done (virtually) everything there is to do in this game", it shouldn't be for the "casual" player but for the "hardcore" player instead. If everyone gets a Platinum Trophy, similar to how everyone gets a turn at bat in Little League no matter how craptacular a player they are, similar to how everyone gets Certificates of Participation and Gold Stars and all that other rot, what does it really mean in the first place?

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