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The Last of Us' Multiplayer is Not "Tacked On" Naughty Dog Assures

This is a discussion on The Last of Us' Multiplayer is Not "Tacked On" Naughty Dog Assures within the General PS3 Discussion forum, part of the Everything PlayStation; Originally Posted by bobbyblitzed You can't prove that adding multiplayer has hurt sales either,Call of duty is proof that multiplayer ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbyblitzed View Post
    You can't prove that adding multiplayer has hurt sales either,Call of duty is proof that multiplayer is a money maker.
    Call of Duty always had multiplayer, that's a ridiculous analogy. You really want to start comparing The Last of Us to Call of Duty?

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    Ultimately I'll be getting this game for the SP campaign only so I could care less if it has MP. I just hope they don't go the UC2/UC3 route and add a bunch of dlc trophies to the game later.

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    I'll pick this up regardless. I just hope, like others have said, that the SP doesn't suffer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ps360 View Post
    if they can pull a portal 2, go for it.
    An objective based co-op with easy to use/understand markers? Sure why not, it was a blast to play. It could work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubicant81 View Post
    Call of Duty always had multiplayer, that's a ridiculous analogy. You really want to start comparing The Last of Us to Call of Duty?
    That was a statement,not an analogy and i didn't compare the two games.Uncharted didn't have multiplayer,it was later added and sales of each game are better than the previous,im sure assassins creed has seen the same result.Farcry 3 has a great single player with a ton of content,they still added a co-op mode and multiplayer to the game,which makes the game better because if you enjoy the multiplayer it gives the game more replay value,

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbyblitzed View Post
    That was a statement,not an analogy and i didn't compare the two games.Uncharted didn't have multiplayer,it was later added and sales of each game are better than the previous,im sure assassins creed has seen the same result.Farcry 3 has a great single player with a ton of content,they still added a co-op mode and multiplayer to the game,which makes the game better because if you enjoy the multiplayer it gives the game more replay value,
    I'll give you replay value, but I would extremely disagree that it makes the game "better" that's an opinion, and not a popular one either. Many would argue that Assassin's Creed has become stagnant and with new outing the games get buggier; and Uncharted had changed it's multiplayer from 2 to 3 to make it more for casuals, and many feel that the single player experience as a whole took a hit because of it. Same goes with Bioshock and Resident Evil.

    Replay value doesn't mean shit to a developer either. A developer doesn't care if you invest 2 minutes or 200 days into a game, as long as you bought it. Multiplayer just opens an easier avenue to find cash streams off of cheap things like outfits, different weapons, maps or palette swaps. That's why the developers care, the money - and to act like there is any other reason for including it is completely missing the objective.

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    I don't know, I feel like it's going to feel that way... show me what it is first. I have faith in Naughty Dog, but multiplayer just doesn't feel right in this game.


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    Quote Originally Posted by StewartBros View Post
    Undoubtedly you will if you want the platinum!
    Exactly. Lol, IDC about the MP as long as there are no grinding MP trophies, and it only has MP trophies like "complete one co op mission" "complete one <insert w.e. else>" and certainly no "Reach level 20!" if there are even MP trophies... that way if you enjoy it you can continue and go get your level 20, but if you think its crap you only have to plat that once.

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    I can't wait for the day that everyone quits CRYING like babies over MP!!! GET OVER IT!!!!! It's an online gaming world and it's not going away. EVER!!
    All everyone wants to do is bitch and moan about MP's like COD, yet they also bitch when other companies try to make a MP that could take people away from playing COD!!
    If you are sooooo against MP, then sell your PS3 and quit playing games! or.....perhaps....you could do the impossible and ignore the MP and not play it! I know!! Crazy thought!

    I am looking forward to this game and definitely looking forward to trying out the MP. If it sucks, OFW!! No matter what I'm paying the same price for it!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by I-Reaped-U View Post
    I can't wait for the day that everyone quits CRYING like babies over MP!!! GET OVER IT!!!!! It's an online gaming world and it's not going away. EVER!!
    All everyone wants to do is bitch and moan about MP's like COD, yet they also bitch when other companies try to make a MP that could take people away from playing COD!!
    If you are sooooo against MP, then sell your PS3 and quit playing games! or.....perhaps....you could do the impossible and ignore the MP and not play it! I know!! Crazy thought!

    1. No need for that tone
    2. There's a difference between people "bitching" and having legitimate complaints and worries about something
    3. People have the option of completely ignoring MP...unless implementing it takes away from the singleplayer experience, and in quite a few cases it does.

    I don't mind multiplayer as long as singleplayer is unaffected. UC3 had a good MP experience including great co-op modes. However, they pulled some features from single player such as the "cheats" you can unlock. Not only that but I feel the ending was a bit rushed.

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    I found Uncharted 3 to be one of the most underappreciated online experiences of this gen, so I'm sure you could understand my anticipation for what's in store here for The Last of Us.

    Now, I don't know how reflective this forum is of gamers as a whole, but it seems everyone always has such a knee jerk reaction to the addition of a multiplayer mode. Everyone likes to whine and moan about how games like Call of Duty always have the same multiplayer these days, but when a new franchise wants to try this online thing out, the instant reaction is always disgust. The inclusion of multiplayer might be motivated by publisher greed, but that doesn’t mean it will always be bad. Why not try and see the potential for innovation for once? I’m always willing to try new things.


    I’ve been playing Bioshock 2 because of PS+ and I tried out the online. You know what? It’s really not bad! It’s got issues, particularly with balancing and the mode variety is by the numbers, but the use of plasmids for example makes it feel like something new. If there is a problem, it certainly is not the idea. Setting other players on fire or freezing them or using telekinesis to send a grenade flying back at your opponent… how is that not at least a little bit cool? The art style is also a refreshing change from the gritty brown of your typical online shooter.

    How about Dead Space 2 online? Did it turn out that great? Maybe, maybe not. But certainly there is potential in human versus monster combat?

    Or Mass Effect 3? The online incorporates itself well into the single player universe and contributes to your galactic readiness.

    Then, there’s Assassin’s Creed. I actually haven’t played it online myself, but after listening to podcasts, reading twitter impressions over the years, and watching it in action, the consensus seems to be that it is one of the most unique and tense multiplayer experiences out there. Hiding from your opponent or stalking them, the pacing is like nothing else on the market.

    And the decline of the AC franchise has nothing to with the inclusion of multiplayer and much more to do with the ridiculously accelerated development times: the fact that they put out a new one every single year.

    I’d argue that the inclusion of multiplayer rarely hurts the quality of a single player game (the development teams are often completely separate). There is no evidence that I have seen. Uncharted 2 didn’t suffer. On the contrary, it greatly improved its single player! And it’s not that “those resources could have been used” to improve the rest of the game, because that’s not how a business works. Those resources would never have been used at all, or they would have been put towards a different project. Multiplayer or not, if a publisher can’t make money, they’ll definitely try and save it.

    If multiplayer has ever truly hurt a single player game, it is with the addition of co-op. For example, I finally played Resident Evil 5 this year and my experience was hurt because I chose to play it on my own. I now had to worry about this dumbass AI partner during my playthrough and I don't like escort missions (never mind that the game is less scary and immersive with someone else).


    Also, I don’t like the term “single player franchise”. Why should a series be bound and qualified one way or the other?

    I know this has turned into a wall of text, and I am not saying I’m right. I’m just saying there are some other things that should be considered.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubicant81 View Post

    Replay value doesn't mean shit to a developer either.
    It certainly does since they would prefer to have fewer used units on the market.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MatCauthon View Post
    It certainly does since they would prefer to have fewer used units on the market.
    that and the fact that he also claims developers only add multiplayer so they can milk money from the consumer with dlc,kind of ridiculous to think you can sell dlc to people who are no longer playing the game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MatCauthon View Post
    It certainly does since they would prefer to have fewer used units on the market.
    Quote Originally Posted by bobbyblitzed View Post
    that and the fact that he also claims developers only add multiplayer so they can milk money from the consumer with dlc,kind of ridiculous to think you can sell dlc to people who are no longer playing the game.
    Multiplayer is now what causes used games to exist less and less? The used game market is another issue entirely, and there are people that trade in Skyrim when they're done with it despite it having hundreds of hours of replay value in it's single player market, and there are those who trade in Call of Duty for the one after it to contribute to paying for it - people trade in their games when they feel like it - not because of a multiplayer being on the game.

    There are many reasons why somebody decides to trade in a game - I sincerely doubt that if there was a question asked by every retailer out there that the most dominate reason would be, "Because the game is lacking in replay value." To assume so much is silly.

    Here is factual information - a list of every game release by Sony first party since 2011 (or since they started the online pass) that isn't a Move. HD Collection or PSN only title:

    LittleBigPlanet 2 - No Online Pass
    Killzone 3 - No Online Pass
    MLB 11: The Show - No Online Pass
    Motorstorm: Apocalypse - No Online Pass
    SOCOM 4 - Requires Online Pass <--- it begins
    Infamous 2 - No Online Pass (and now watch the trend)
    Resistance 3 - Requires Online Pass
    Ratchet and Clank: All 4 One - Requires Online Pass
    Uncharted 3: Drakes Deception - Requires Online Pass
    Twisted Metal - Requires Online Pass (and David Jaffe blasts Sony for doing it, because he doesn't want it)
    MLB 12: The Show - Requires Online Pass
    Starhawk - Requires Online Pass
    LittleBigPlanet Karting - Requires Online Pass
    PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale - Requires Online Pass

    Now if Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time and Beyond: Two Souls also both end up with online passes (because God of War: Ascension has been confirmed it will), we will see that the entire online issue is because Sony is forcing the issue - and that is why a game like this has it, not "replay value" or "casual gamers" or whatever other excuse you want to make for it's inclusion.

    ---

    I am not saying that there isn't people out there who will enjoy this, but there are people who are getting a little turned off by the need of multiplayer when it isn't necessary. I do enjoy the multiplayer to quite a few games, even the ones that I am making an objective argument against, but to deny the reasoning and factual trends as to why games are going that way, and feeding off the excuses when the business model is shaping the necessary need for those elements because of.... wait for it.... so many people abusing the used game systems that hurt the developers in the long run.

    Games are more expensive than ever to make, and they are also getting buggier and more unstable in the process - the amount of polish that developers put out is a lot less than it has been because of publisher influence on needing to get revenue streams in before the game can go out. The industry is bleeding in many places (from THQ as a publisher, to Irrational as a developer - lots of game studios are in serious danger of closing) and you want to preach about used games as if it's a reason that helps everybody (developer, publisher, and gamer) when the only party that comes out from it with a "deal" is your own selfish means.

    But go on and throw away the business principles of the industry, and the current trends as a whole, and make whatever lame duck excuse you want for what is happening as games require more revenue streams to compete as a whole, and that the catering to the "Call of Duty" crowd helps anybody else - but those who try and copy paste it to near plagiarism, yet get less and less of the piece of a pie as a whole as it becomes more generally accepted that things like Gamefly and video game chains that give you pennies on the dollar for your titles is "good for you" and the casuals are fine with their Call of Duties year in and year out anyways, despite bitching about it.

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    All I am going to do is play the quick MP trophies out unless it's level up to blah blah than I'll hit MP last than never touch it again. My MP is either Borderlands either version, BG when I get the time since those do vampire your time like crazy and the best FPS MP of all Team Fortress 2. So yeah I'll only play MP for said trophy unless said trophy is BS or the service blows.
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    I bet you it will follow the same archetype as the Uncharted MP and will suck donkey balls. AND feel tacked on. I'm interested in picking this up but only after its been out for a while and I've seen positive reviews and gameplay. If the gameplay mechanics are AT ALL like the Uncharteds I will be passing.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubicant81 View Post
    Multiplayer is now what causes used games to exist less and less? The used game market is another issue entirely, and there are people that trade in Skyrim when they're done with it despite it having hundreds of hours of replay value in it's single player market, and there are those who trade in Call of Duty for the one after it to contribute to paying for it - people trade in their games when they feel like it - not because of a multiplayer being on the game.

    There are many reasons why somebody decides to trade in a game - I sincerely doubt that if there was a question asked by every retailer out there that the most dominate reason would be, "Because the game is lacking in replay value." To assume so much is silly.

    Here is factual information - a list of every game release by Sony first party since 2011 (or since they started the online pass) that isn't a Move. HD Collection or PSN only title:

    LittleBigPlanet 2 - No Online Pass
    Killzone 3 - No Online Pass
    MLB 11: The Show - No Online Pass
    Motorstorm: Apocalypse - No Online Pass
    SOCOM 4 - Requires Online Pass <--- it begins
    Infamous 2 - No Online Pass (and now watch the trend)
    Resistance 3 - Requires Online Pass
    Ratchet and Clank: All 4 One - Requires Online Pass
    Uncharted 3: Drakes Deception - Requires Online Pass
    Twisted Metal - Requires Online Pass (and David Jaffe blasts Sony for doing it, because he doesn't want it)
    MLB 12: The Show - Requires Online Pass
    Starhawk - Requires Online Pass
    LittleBigPlanet Karting - Requires Online Pass
    PlayStation All-Stars Battle Royale - Requires Online Pass

    Now if Sly Cooper: Thieves in Time and Beyond: Two Souls also both end up with online passes (because God of War: Ascension has been confirmed it will), we will see that the entire online issue is because Sony is forcing the issue - and that is why a game like this has it, not "replay value" or "casual gamers" or whatever other excuse you want to make for it's inclusion.

    ---

    I am not saying that there isn't people out there who will enjoy this, but there are people who are getting a little turned off by the need of multiplayer when it isn't necessary. I do enjoy the multiplayer to quite a few games, even the ones that I am making an objective argument against, but to deny the reasoning and factual trends as to why games are going that way, and feeding off the excuses when the business model is shaping the necessary need for those elements because of.... wait for it.... so many people abusing the used game systems that hurt the developers in the long run.

    Games are more expensive than ever to make, and they are also getting buggier and more unstable in the process - the amount of polish that developers put out is a lot less than it has been because of publisher influence on needing to get revenue streams in before the game can go out. The industry is bleeding in many places (from THQ as a publisher, to Irrational as a developer - lots of game studios are in serious danger of closing) and you want to preach about used games as if it's a reason that helps everybody (developer, publisher, and gamer) when the only party that comes out from it with a "deal" is your own selfish means.

    But go on and throw away the business principles of the industry, and the current trends as a whole, and make whatever lame duck excuse you want for what is happening as games require more revenue streams to compete as a whole, and that the catering to the "Call of Duty" crowd helps anybody else - but those who try and copy paste it to near plagiarism, yet get less and less of the piece of a pie as a whole as it becomes more generally accepted that things like Gamefly and video game chains that give you pennies on the dollar for your titles is "good for you" and the casuals are fine with their Call of Duties year in and year out anyways, despite bitching about it.
    SOCOM 4 doesn't require an online pass.
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    I don't care if the multiplayer mode is "tacked on" or not, I care about whether or not they'll tack on a ton of unwanted, unneeded multiplayer trophies. Or, as they're known in abbreviated form, multiplayer trophies.

    ND has proven that they will, and this is why I will not be buying The Last of Us.

    If you want my money, make a trophy list that centers around skill - not mindless grinding.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy66 View Post
    SOCOM 4 doesn't require an online pass.
    SOCOM 4 Brings Its Own Online Pass To The Table - IndustryGamers

    Although you can technically skit around and declare it not an online pass (the same way the Catwoman DLC for Arkham City isn't technically an online pass) it's excusive content that you can only get by buying the game new, and is excluded for used buyers by locking out features of the game. Yes, by semantics it is not your typical online pass, because you can still access some features online without it, but other parts are locked out that are yours if you don't buy the game new.

    It was also Sony's first time at trying it, since then they have simplified the issue and just locked out the online content unless you buy the pass (which is also $5 cheaper than before). It's still a redemption code that you must pay extra for to access all the content that comes with the game new.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ps360 View Post
    if they can pull a portal 2, go for it.
    Agreed


    The thing is though that Naughty Dog has specific teams that work at the studio to design multiplayer and nothing else. So I wouldn't say that resources are being wasted unless some people from the single player team were moved to multiplayer. I just can't think of any type of multiplayer that would work for The Last of Us. Competitive would not work at all seeing that in the single player you are always low on ammo from what it seems. I could a hoard mode possibly. They could make this good. Low on ammo and supplies while you and your team tries to defend yourselves from the infected.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Voltergeist View Post
    ND has proven that they will, and this is why I will not be buying The Last of Us.

    Wow...just wow. Skipping a game that looks like it'll be great because of trophies? What has gaming come to....

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