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Destructoid Article: "Online Passes for all future games."

This is a discussion on Destructoid Article: "Online Passes for all future games." within the General PS3 Discussion forum, part of the Everything PlayStation; This, is fucking stupid...

  1. #21
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    This, is fucking stupid
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    Actually I'll welcome anyone who can provide justification of this cost. Don't give me "it costs more to run a server now." I want numbers from a real source.

    If I see that then I'll gladly shut up and accept it. Until then, It's just being greedy and sticking it to the end user.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roymond View Post
    Making a good reference to your username

    If you could provide ANY information proving that the server costs are rising, or that there is magically MORE server maintenance required NOW than there was say three or four years ago. Then maybe there'd be less bickering.

    But servers are a one time cost that companies buy and use for several games. For example I'm sure that when they shut the servers for Madden 05 down they didn't get rid of them. They probably used them for Madden 08, and are probably using them now for Madden 12. Obviously there are going to be costs to repair said servers but the cost of those repairs are negligible to the cost of originally BUYING them.

    There must be a reason why they don't show this information. Oh yea... because it's not true in ALL cases.
    Maybe not rising, but it still costs to maintain the multi-player portion of a game, shit doesn't come free. Also servers are not a one time cost, in the same respect a PC is not a one time cost. You keep updating them with better hardware an shit to make them more reliable. Then you've got the cost of server technicians, hosting provision and in some cases costs of housing said servers...

    There's a lot more to providing multi-player experiences then "this server gosts 2,000 and thats all".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxymoron28 View Post
    Maybe not rising, but it still costs to maintain the multi-player portion of a game, shit doesn't come free. Also servers are not a one time cost, in the same respect a PC is not a one time cost. You keep updating them with better hardware an shit to make them more reliable. Then you've got the cost of server technicians, hosting provision and in some cases costs of housing said servers...

    There's a lot more to providing multi-player experiences then "this server gosts 2,000 and thats all".
    See I understand all of this, but the problem is you don't go upgrading your hardware every year. I just can't believe that the sales of new games don't cover the costs of operating the servers by a margin that is not acceptable to house the used game market.

    I mean think about it this way. The following scenario assumes no one gets bored and stops playing. If only 50,000 player buy the game new. Then 30,000 return the games and all copies are bought used. That is still 50,000 players. Imagine if there was no used market for games. Are they still going to charge you more money at some point to allow you to be online?

    Also, if money is an issue, then this is where I feel that DLC has failed. Companies have an opportunity to regain the end user's interest with interesting and new DLC that could cover costs of operating the servers and but instead they pump out cruddy DLC that I doubt even half the market buys and punish people who purchase the game second hand?

    I suspect that if Call of Duty gave a new game type with a DLC pack that would instill more interest and get more buyers and cover the costs of running the servers.

    Unfortunately without numbers I can't prove this theory because the amount of data used per average user could be anywhere from 1MB to 100 GB's
    Last edited by Roymond; 10-04-2011 at 11:33 AM. Reason: Adding more
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roymond View Post
    See I understand all of this, but the problem is you don't go upgrading your hardware every year. I just can't believe that the sales of new games don't cover the costs of operating the servers by a margin that is not acceptable to house the used game market.

    I mean think about it this way. If only 50,000 player buy the game new. Then 30,000 return the games and all copies are bought used. That is still 50,000 players. Imagine if there was no used market for games. Are they still going to charge you more money at some point to allow you to be online?

    I need solid concrete proof and I'm stubborn as all hell.
    They might do, it all depends on what kind of game they're hosting, but even then upgrading costs would of been the cheaper cost of all out goings anyway.

    That's to assume games are produced to a set number, which they aren't Games go into production and tend to stay in production for years.
    Also if only 50,000 people buy the game used, they'd just let the multi-player portion die out because it'd be pointless to fund that.

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    waiting for a price drop then -_-

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by HYSTΣR!A⋆➒➑ View Post
    I know we're in recession, but still, FUCK you GAME.
    I will stop using Game.co.uk for buying PS3 games in future because not only are the prices always more expensive than the competitors but they have changed from Royal Mail to Citipost. Bad news to be honest..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Timeless-Enigma View Post
    I will stop using Game.co.uk for buying PS3 games in future because not only are the prices always more expensive than the competitors but they have changed from Royal Mail to Citipost. Bad news to be honest..
    One thing I've never understood about GAME, GameStation is a subsidiary to GAME, but yet Gamestation get all the better deals, better prices and are just in general better...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roymond View Post
    Actually I'll welcome anyone who can provide justification of this cost. Don't give me "it costs more to run a server now." I want numbers from a real source.

    If I see that then I'll gladly shut up and accept it. Until then, It's just being greedy and sticking it to the end user.
    If you want proof, just look it up on the internet, Between Dr_Mayus, Oxy, and myself. We've already provided plenty of reasons why this has happened. Shit, We all predicted this was coming down the road when the Ps3 was hacked into by Geofag.

    Now on the flipside and to reinforce what were talking about and why this is happening. You are a member of GF, you contribute NOTHING to the developers and Sony. Between the rental service and possibly buying used games from GF or GS or wherever. They see nothing from that, except people get to play their games for a small price or fee. This is so that they atleast make SOME money off of people playing their product. Besides, who likes putting in so much time and effort for no return? Personally, and this is to make fun of you. Provide one good reason not to do this. I'm being serious, because I can't think of any. With used games already $10 cheaper to compensate this, why does it matter to you? Because now you can't play online? Pay for the code if you want the online so bad.

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    Roymond, don't waste anymore of your time. This has been brought up multiple times and the same argument is always presented. You and them are beating a dead and decaying horse.

    But for the record I do agree with you. But if they want to get milked for all their worth, let them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgar View Post
    But for the record I do agree with you. But if they want to get milked for all their worth, let them.
    Another misinformed fool, if being milked means paying the same amount. Then by means, milk away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minarum View Post
    Another misinformed fool, if being milked means paying the same amount. Then by means, milk away.
    Was the name calling necessary? Think what you want, I couldn't care less about the issue anymore. I was just trying to help someone save themselves the grief of arguing with you guys. It's not worth it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgar View Post
    Was the name calling necessary? Think what you want, I couldn't care less about the issue anymore. I was just trying to help someone save themselves the grief of arguing with you guys. It's not worth it.
    To spread incorrect information and saying people will be milked... Your a fool and misinformed for thinking that. And what is their to argue? That this only effects Gamefly, BlockBuster, and Redbox gamers? Because everywhere else you will pay the same price. If you are not one of those 3, then why bother arguing or complaining?

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    Dr Mayus has some good points in this post which I agree with.

    My opinion is,
    1. If you are buying a new game, it doesn't matter (you'll get the code with the purchase)
    2. If you don't care about online play, it doesn't matter (no need to activate the code, and it will make resale more valuable)
    3. If you do buy it for considerably less, then you are still going to end up getting the game for a whole lot less. If you pay $30 for a game, and $10 for the PSN pass, you're still $20 ahead of the game compared to release day at the retail level.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Minarum View Post
    To spread incorrect information and saying people will be milked... Your a fool and misinformed for thinking that. And what is their to argue? That this only effects Gamefly, BlockBuster, and Redbox gamers? Because everywhere else you will pay the same price. If you are not one of those 3, then why bother arguing or complaining?
    Nice edit there good sir. Seems you love to argue and make people feel lesser intellectually.
    I know what you want, so I'll give it to you. You are right, your logic is infallible in every way, shape or form. Happy now? Ooh, here's a little cherry on top for you:


    Don't bother wasting your time responding.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulgar View Post
    Nice edit there good sir. Seems you love to argue and make people feel lesser intellectually.
    I know what you want, so I'll give it to you. You are right, your logic is infallible in every way, shape or form. Happy now? Ooh, here's a little cherry on top for you:
    Edit? it's common sense seeing as it's been on the market for some time now and we know where it's going. Now what I want, is a valid argument to try and convince me to think like Roymond, and there isn't. Specially since places like GS have already compensated the buyers for used games already. If you can't contribute to the argument with supporting facts or evidence, then don't bother. Now you have a problem being milked $0, then why complain?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minarum View Post
    If you want proof, just look it up on the internet, Between Dr_Mayus, Oxy, and myself. We've already provided plenty of reasons why this has happened. Shit, We all predicted this was coming down the road when the Ps3 was hacked into by Geofag.

    Now on the flipside and to reinforce what were talking about and why this is happening. You are a member of GF, you contribute NOTHING to the developers and Sony. Between the rental service and possibly buying used games from GF or GS or wherever. They see nothing from that, except people get to play their games for a small price or fee. This is so that they atleast make SOME money off of people playing their product. Besides, who likes putting in so much time and effort for no return? Personally, and this is to make fun of you. Provide one good reason not to do this. I'm being serious, because I can't think of any. With used games already $10 cheaper to compensate this, why does it matter to you? Because now you can't play online? Pay for the code if you want the online so bad.
    Taking your word doesn't mean shit. I want numbers. Your "proof" is just speculation without numbers.

    Also, you're wrong again. I may be a Gamefly member but I buy plenty of games brand new. I buy them as gifts for friends, I buy them for myself when I want a game immediately. But the developers I buy from have earned my respect. Ubisoft is going to get my money for the next Assassin's Creed because I truly enjoy it. Naughty Dog has earned themselves another sale because of Uncharted 1 and 2 (Both I bought new).

    And frankly, You're an ass if you have to resort to making fun of someone when they disagree with you. Prove me wrong with numbers or shut up and walk away from the table.
    -Roy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roymond View Post
    Taking your word doesn't mean shit. I want numbers. Your "proof" is just speculation without numbers.
    Which part are we talking about now? Cost of used games on the market? How much I pay for my new games? Or what? You opened up a huge door on what I've already talked about in this thread, but want proof of used game prices? goto a Gamestop or any store that sells games used. I'm not going to waste my time going into a GS and taking pictures just because you disagree with whats going on.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roymond View Post
    Also, you're wrong again. I may be a Gamefly member but I buy plenty of games brand new. I buy them as gifts for friends, I buy them for myself when I want a game immediately. But the developers I buy from have earned my respect. Ubisoft is going to get my money for the next Assassin's Creed because I truly enjoy it. Naughty Dog has earned themselves another sale because of Uncharted 1 and 2 (Both I bought new).
    Ok, why and how am I wrong? No where did I say anything about you NOT buying new games. But I'll try and break it down to you even though it might not be possible. The process of using GF and buying used means nothing for Devs. Which is what I was talking about in that 2nd paragraph..........I don't know what else to say. Renting and buying used = no money being made.

    Quote Originally Posted by Roymond View Post
    And frankly, You're an ass if you have to resort to making fun of someone when they disagree with you. Prove me wrong with numbers or shut up and walk away from the table.
    No, there is a difference between being an ass and providing real information. If you want to spread rumors and lies, then do it somewhere else. I'm not making fun of anyone nor have to resort to anytype of name calling. The topic has been discussed, if you fail to read, then spread BS. Who is really the ass here, or the misinformed fool? Ty. I have a problem with incorrect information being spread around, which is why Ps360 and I "argue" a lot.

    And what numbers do you want? Here, Search | GameStop. $12 off for used compared to a new. But Online sales run differently then instore. And like I said, I'm not going to run into a GS or into any other shop flashing pictures. You have to be insane. You don't have to take my word for anything, cause just like a few members here that already know, it's true. I'm not trying to persuade you, I'm just trying to stop the posting of inaccurate information being thrown out there. So if I come off as an ass due to your lack of knowledge on whats been going on, then I guess, so be it.

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    Minarum,

    I want proof that the cost to maintain the servers is increasing. I want proof that justifies the need of this online pass.

    You assumed that I contributed NOTHING because I am a member of gamefly, and I proved you wrong on this.

    And I haven't spreading ANY information. I'm asking for proof or justification for the cost. No one has provided that yet. You've done nothing but say "Go buy a new game from Amazon to save money." That has nothing to do with anything I've said. I said I wanted proof of the server maintenance going up and I wanted justification of this new cost.

    Go back and read my posts. I'm done responding to you.
    -Roy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Roymond View Post
    Minarum,

    I want proof that the cost to maintain the servers is increasing. I want proof that justifies the need of this online pass.

    You assumed that I contributed NOTHING because I am a member of gamefly, and I proved you wrong on this.

    And I haven't spreading ANY information. I'm asking for proof or justification for the cost. No one has provided that yet. You've done nothing but say "Go buy a new game from Amazon to save money." That has nothing to do with anything I've said. I said I wanted proof of the server maintenance going up and I wanted justification of this new cost.

    Go back and read my posts. I'm done responding to you.
    Well then it seems you have been responding to the wrong person the whole time and should have never even said anything to me. I'm not 100% sure about Server rising costs, but I wouldn't doubt it since everything else has gone up. Now as far as Maintaining a server, that's a no brainer. It's expensive.

    As for being wrong. You still use GF which contributes nothing to the devs, do you not understand? I never said 1 word about you not buying new games. If that's too hard to understand, then like you said. We're done here then. I've read your posts. But why you responded to me with wanting costs of servers and so forth is beyond me. Specially since my whole argument is about game prices, not server costs. Now I'm sure if I spent 5 minutes online I could find something you are looking for, but I don't want to bother if you will just dismiss it. So whats the point? And I have provided a few reasons why this has happened. I'm just surprised it didn't happen sooner. But just like Rage, expect that to happen next with all games down the road. Which will put GF and other services out of business, or hurting atleast.

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