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French Associsation sues Game publishers and retailers for DLC Bullshittery & More

This is a discussion on French Associsation sues Game publishers and retailers for DLC Bullshittery & More within the General PS3 Discussion forum, part of the Everything PlayStation; Originally Posted by Gauss And who is forcing you to spend money on it? If you buy a game that ...

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gauss View Post
    And who is forcing you to spend money on it?

    If you buy a game that you feel is not finished to your expectations or to an unacceptable level, you have nobody else to blame for that except yourself.
    actually if i buy a product that doesnt work properly i blame the people that brought the product to market,rather ignorant to blame the consumer.

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    what " pretty lady picture" said, sorry to lazy to argue with my own words
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    Quote Originally Posted by platzreign View Post
    You have to remember that over half the console sold are never hooked up to the internet.
    im pre sure they released statistics on that and it was like 60% ARE connected to the internet on average, where as each country has its own level for example i think new zealand is up near 70% and 90% population HAS the internet

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxymoron28 View Post

    I've never had to buy DLC to "complete" a game... If they perhaps reworded it so that they were suing against companies that insist on releasing bullshit DLC like content already on the disc which requires you to pay to unlock thinly disguised as DLC then yeah, but otherwise, DLC when done right is good for the industry, I don't see how expanding upon a game can be considered "bad" or even worth suing over...



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    Quote Originally Posted by The Secret Society View Post
    someones unsecured WI FI lol
    lol good one.

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    Sue, sue, sue..Doesn't anybody f*ck anymore?

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    Lol. Your also talking about one of the biggest dlc milking companies out there. This is expected with game companies like EA, Bioware, and Bethesda. But the article is absolutely right. I forgot about that. Most DLC aren't mentioned or needed in a game's story where this one was lol.

    Which reminds me... Just picked up DA2 for a few bucks new, kinda scared if I'm going to be raped in the wallet for dlc for this as well.

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    Was wardens keep required to complete the game?

    If so then I'll just add bioware to my list of bullshit DLC makers. A massive list at that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HYSTΣR!A⋆➒➑ View Post
    The problem for me is that the developers didn't bother, and that so many still buy into it, regardless.
    Ah... So the problem isn't so much that you buy it, but that you want to control other people's opinions, views, and actions? Well where does that stop? I mean you are supporting a lawsuit over something completely unrelated to any safety or personal rights issue, there are no moral issues raised here. You are supporting a lawsuit that is out to control a medium of entertainment and an economic subculture.

    You know people try controlling things down to that level, and usually things like Holocausts come out of it. I'd just avoid fascism/authoritarianism.

    First question to any individual who respects freedom should be: Does the government need to stick their nose in it? Have we really gotten to the point where we are so irresponsible with our money in gaming that we need the government to come in and punish these companies we willingly spend our money at?

    Quote Originally Posted by njdevil View Post
    I hear customers crying that they have to buy a code to have the full functionality of the game.... and that's the way it should be.
    Yup, and the other major problem is this was already attempted in the 90s with lawsuits over CD Keys.

    No matter what argument these guys provide, the logic is still the same as it is with those older cases. Seeing as none of those were successful, I don't see how suing over OP will be.

    Now, as I said, legally you have every right to try and crack their code for generating Online Passes...

    Quote Originally Posted by bobbyblitzed View Post
    actually if i buy a product that doesnt work properly i blame the people that brought the product to market,rather ignorant to blame the consumer.
    But nobody is forcing you to buy it...

    The contentions raised in this lawsuit aren't about you buying a product that doesn't work as advertised, its about gaming companies who release buggy/broken games.

    I think its ignorant that people are avoiding personal responsibility for their own actions.

    If you can't be bothered to do research for yourself into the issue of whether a product you want to purchase works to your satisfaction, don't go to the government asking them to make it right.

    You're the guy who can't be bothered to spend their money wisely.

    Yup, and that was on the disc (atleast the day-1 DLC was). Hence clearly Oxy is against that, as am I.

    If its on the disc, clearly you developed it within the scope of the original game, ergo its not DLC and charging for it is unethical.

    My point isn't that these practices are right either, its that I fail to see why we are taking this to the Government for them to make decisions on it.

    This has absolutely nothing to do with anything of any importance. Its not about unfair banking practices, consumer privacy, trade laws, or product safety. Those types of things are either very large, complex issues (hence not common sense), things that are out of your control as an individual yet matter to your rights as an individual, or related to safety.

    This... Its about some people being unwilling to use their wallet to convey their point.

    And if you are using your wallet and its not working, clearly the public is not behind you. Doesn't mean you have to conform, but by doing this you clearly align yourself with an authoritarian viewpoint.

    And thats the reality...

    If we are talking about EA not keeping up their end of the deal on BF1943 or any other advertised bonus that doesn't come through? I am behind that 100%, If a company says publicly they are going to do X, you buy something and they don't follow through, that is a breech of your rights.

    This though? We need to sue publishers because of DLC, which none of us are forced to buy, and DRM, which in the EU and US is covered under dozens of protection acts already, and buggy games, which every gamer is perfectly capable of finding out before they buy something?

    Why? Why do we need to involve the government?

    (FYI, this is not a class action or personal lawsuit...)
    Gauss's Piracy Uncertainty Principle: When you pirate a game, that act inherently changes the results of what is to come after your pirating. You can't make any statement with any certainty regarding what would have happened had you not pirated the game.


    Gauss's Rating Rationale:
    0-1: A game whose very existence is abhorrent to all things creative and intelligent.
    2-4: A just plain bad game.
    5-6: A game that has alot of mistakes, but is atleast playable and has some enjoyable sections. Good for a rent.
    7: An average game, should be played at some point
    8: A good game, should buy at some point
    9: A great game, day-one purchase
    10: A game that goes above and beyond the generation, its transcendent.

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    Good. EA for example, why is there a need for Online Passes? Because those bitches want more money. About the patch thing, how the hell do you get a patch without internet? Thats like me buying Madden 12, not having WI-FI or internet, then sueing EA for not having roster updates
    I still play Black Ops because me and brother have 2 PS3's and share a copy of Modern Warfare 3. So that is why I play it sometimes. Thats the *ONLY* time I play Black Ops! When brother is not playing MW3, I am!

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    I live in a French society. I hate it. A lot.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Krazy_Destroyer View Post
    Good. EA for example, why is there a need for Online Passes? Because those bitches want more money.
    And nobody is forcing you to buy their shit!

    EA has never hidden the online pass program from anybody, you know before you buy a game if it has an online pass. So how and why is it anybody's fault but your own if you are buying games that have online passes?

    I'm going to share something with you guys, I don't really like the online pass either! Thing is, I don't want the government to come in and tell me and the rest of us what is and is not right in gaming. I'm capable of deciding how to spend my money myself.

    If a company is doing something or releasing games that I'm not behind, I don't spend my money. Sure they may still be released, but they aren't getting my cash.

    I'm standing on this because of principle here guys, yeah sure today its DLC and buggy games... But as I said before where does it stop?

    What happens to services like Steam, which require internet connection to buy games and download patches?

    What happens if a company releases free DLC, but you need an internet connection to get it?

    What happens if a company releases free DLC, but it contains bugs? Where is the line for what is considered buggy anyway? Its funny they mention Bethesda in this suit, but if you read some of their briefs they are talking about shit like BF3's MP.

    Why do we even need the government to answer these questions in an official capacity for us? I know what I like and what I'm willing to spend money on, why does what I think and my viewpoint have to be the de-facto law/standard now? Why are your views on this topic any better?

    Discussing things is one thing, but thats not what this is. This company is asking the government via a lawsuit to bring about some type of change and punish these companies.
    Gauss's Piracy Uncertainty Principle: When you pirate a game, that act inherently changes the results of what is to come after your pirating. You can't make any statement with any certainty regarding what would have happened had you not pirated the game.


    Gauss's Rating Rationale:
    0-1: A game whose very existence is abhorrent to all things creative and intelligent.
    2-4: A just plain bad game.
    5-6: A game that has alot of mistakes, but is atleast playable and has some enjoyable sections. Good for a rent.
    7: An average game, should be played at some point
    8: A good game, should buy at some point
    9: A great game, day-one purchase
    10: A game that goes above and beyond the generation, its transcendent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krazy_Destroyer View Post
    Good. EA for example, why is there a need for Online Passes? Because those bitches want more money.
    Exactly... Online Pass is just an attempt to screw over the customers who buy second hand. My problem with the online pass is that is clearly separates the purchase. Before the pass, I paid $60 for a game, that happened to bundle online functionality. Therefore, they can close the server whenever they like since it was simply an added on experience. Now... The purchase is $50 for the game and $10 for the pass. Since I am paying for the right to play online, you have forfeited the right to close the server since I pay $10 for unlimited access.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gauss View Post
    And nobody is forcing you to buy their shit!
    ...and EA isn't the only company doing this. Resistance 3 was just released with the pass as well. This is basically a "test run" being done by EA. I am sure many other developers will follow suit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oxymoron28 View Post
    Was wardens keep required to complete the game?

    If so then I'll just add bioware to my list of bullshit DLC makers. A massive list at that.
    No it wasn't needed to actually complete the game, but it was mentioned in the game even if you didn't buy the dlc... So it was apart of the released game. Which I do somewhat agree with in a lawsuit. Now some companies lock their content away on the disc, but wait for a patch to release the rest of the content. But it's free, and I don't mind that. White Knight Chron does this, it never charges but it does lock up the hidden dlc so you can't get the elite items right off the bat. Lets the people that wait get the easier route while people that enjoy the game and play it the most have to grind for the stuff . So if it's a DLC that's on the disc that is charging... I have a issue. But if it's off the disc, we have a problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by spankynspronkle View Post
    ...and EA isn't the only company doing this. Resistance 3 was just released with the pass as well. This is basically a "test run" being done by EA. I am sure many other developers will follow suit.
    Jesus, do you even look at used game sale prices? Places like gamestop lower their prices of used games that require online passes by $10. Hence, the consumer is spending maybe $1-2 more(due to taxes) when it comes to games and online play. And if you don't play the online portion, you actually get the game for $10 or so cheaper... This is a dead convo that misinformed people try to fight. Get over it already. Get informed or don't talk. Now if you don't have a company that does this, then you have ebay and amazon which sell games for dirt cheap making the argument void anyways. Which is why I pay next to nothing for new games all the time and don't care and support online codes . Developers need their share.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minarum View Post
    Jesus, do you even look at used game sale prices? Places like gamestop lower their prices of used games that require online passes by $10.
    Actually, I do. Apparently YOU don't.

    Madden NFL 12 for PlayStation 3 | GameStop + another $10 for the pass.... wouldn't that be $57.99 for a used title instead of $59.99 for a new title? Yea... any that isn't the only game. Resistance 3 used is listed for $47.99... Yet again, another $10 pass would make this a $2 savings... Shall I go on?

    Quote Originally Posted by Minarum View Post
    Get informed or don't talk.
    Perhaps you should heed your own advice...

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    Quote Originally Posted by spankynspronkle View Post
    ...and EA isn't the only company doing this. Resistance 3 was just released with the pass as well. This is basically a "test run" being done by EA. I am sure many other developers will follow suit.
    Any nobody is forcing you to buy any of those games either!

    I don't care who is doing it. You know a game has an online pass when you buy it, if you choose to buy it having that knowledge. Its your fault!

    You aren't being lied to, deceived, or manipulated. The practice isn't unethical, nor is it putting you in unnecessary danger.

    You may not like it, but thats your personal preference. You are still allowed to spend your money as you see fit.

    Keep in mind, I'm asking people why should the Government come in and make decisions on this? I'm not saying Online Passes are fucking awesome here, I'm saying I don't want the government to come in and set precedent on whether Online Passes are legal.

    Thats not for them to decide, thats for us (as consumers) to keep in check.

    Quote Originally Posted by spankynspronkle View Post
    Actually, I do. Apparently YOU don't.

    Madden NFL 12 for PlayStation 3 | GameStop + another $10 for the pass.... wouldn't that be $57.99 for a used title instead of $59.99 for a new title?
    And you're point?

    If you look at other titles that don't have online passes they tend to be in the same general region (2-5 bucks).

    Now there is some statistical distribution here (hence why I hate citing specific examples for generalized points), I noticed a few games that varied all the way up to half price.

    Problem is you are forgetting how the market works, more games coming in = lower used prices. Less games coming in = higher used prices.

    Ultimately none of this answers the question as to why the Government needs to come in and rule on this...

    Its not your right to get any game you want for a price you deem is fair.

    Its not your right to be able to buy games 2nd hand for atleast some price lower than their new counterparts.

    The developers do have the right to ensure they are fairly compensated for their products.

    Your rights are to spend your money how you see fit. If you don't believe their practices are cost effective or what you deem to be fair, don't buy their shit. Simple as that. If you don't think a price is fair, wait for it to change. Simple as that.

    I keep hearing people say crap about Online Passes and DRM, but my question is if you hate this shit WHY ARE YOU BUYING IT!?!?!?!?

    Its the same crap I say about Michael Bay films. I hate them, hence I don't pay money and go to see them. If people do because they enjoy that, thats their right. I'm not going to go to the gov't and ask for a film police to be formed to stop him. Because thats one step away from someone saying "I don't think foreign films should be allowed" or "I don't think films depicting the US/Mexico/Canada/France in a negative light should be allowed." Yeah, I wouldn't be asking for the same thing, but those ideals are cut from the same cloth.

    This is no different, its very clear millions of people don't care about Ubisoft's DRM because AC:R is selling like hotcakes. Its very clear millions of people don't care about the online pass because Madden is still turning a profit. If you are opposed to DRM and online passes but are still buying these titles, thats your damn fault. Don't come to me asking the government to pass regulations preventing those from being made in the first place, because I'm going to ask you to just get it over with and slap the swastika on your arm.

    Particularly when, as I said earlier, the government has a law that allows you to break these things. Its already in a nice check/balance system. Companies can do it, but consumers are allowed to break those measures so long as it is for personal use (i.e. you aren't selling cracks).

    The contentions raised here have nothing to do with releasing unsafe products, unethical business practices, or false/misleading advertising/business-practices (atleast in the generalized form raised here). Hence, the government should stay the fuck out of it.

    Also what you are talking about is why the online passes were made in the first place, if you buy it new... It doesn't really damage you in anyway. If you buy it used, you aren't getting as good a deal.
    Last edited by Gauss; 12-02-2011 at 08:56 AM.
    Gauss's Piracy Uncertainty Principle: When you pirate a game, that act inherently changes the results of what is to come after your pirating. You can't make any statement with any certainty regarding what would have happened had you not pirated the game.


    Gauss's Rating Rationale:
    0-1: A game whose very existence is abhorrent to all things creative and intelligent.
    2-4: A just plain bad game.
    5-6: A game that has alot of mistakes, but is atleast playable and has some enjoyable sections. Good for a rent.
    7: An average game, should be played at some point
    8: A good game, should buy at some point
    9: A great game, day-one purchase
    10: A game that goes above and beyond the generation, its transcendent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spankynspronkle View Post
    Madden NFL 12 for PlayStation 3 | GameStop + another $10 for the pass.... wouldn't that be $57.99 for a used title instead of $59.99 for a new title? Yea... any that isn't the only game. Resistance 3 used is listed for $47.99... Yet again, another $10 pass would make this a $2 savings... Shall I go on?
    Why are you buying used games then?
    I never buy used games, regardless of whether they are singleplayer, multiplayer, pass or no pass. New games eventually drop in price, and if a game is worth paying more for I will pay it. When you buy used, you don't really own the experience, do you? You're having someone else's sloppy seconds.

    It should really be obvious to everyone that we live in a free society and have free will to make whatever choices we want to. I don't know why folk keep kicking up such a big fuss about this. By the sounds of it, all these motherfuckas complaining about paying for this, paying for that... Gaming just isn't really worth it to you, is it? That's fine, take up another hobby. Preferably one you don't have to pay for... like running. But oh wait, there's the shoes, isn't there? That's an additional cost. FUCK YOU, GOD!

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    I was simply pointing out that while games will be reduced in price, it will not absorb the entire cost (as seen with the new releases). Eventually some EA games will cost less than $10 without a pass and it's unrealistic to think the game will be free with an online pass. Either way, I am not going to argue pricing with you because that simply wasn't my grievance and you correctly pointed out that there is a distribution in terms of pricing.

    My original complaint was that it's not fair to charge for an online service if it is routinely shut down. I think people would be more accepting if a franchise like Call of Duty were to have an online pass because there servers stay open for half a decade...or longer. EA is quite the opposite as their servers last about 2 years max (sport franchises mostly). Obviously you are right, in that they, the company, have the right to do what they want. However, I think there needs to be some federal intervention into how long a server MUST remain open if you now require new (yes, the game is now $10 for online and the remaining balance for "the game") and used games to explicitly pay to use it!

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    Quote Originally Posted by S810666 View Post
    Sue, sue, sue..Doesn't anybody f*ck anymore?
    Hahaha..this.






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