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French Associsation sues Game publishers and retailers for DLC Bullshittery & More

This is a discussion on French Associsation sues Game publishers and retailers for DLC Bullshittery & More within the General PS3 Discussion forum, part of the Everything PlayStation; Originally Posted by Gauss Ah... So the problem isn't so much that you buy it, but that you want to ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gauss View Post
    Ah... So the problem isn't so much that you buy it, but that you want to control other people's opinions, views, and actions? Well where does that stop? I mean you are supporting a lawsuit over something completely unrelated to any safety or personal rights issue, there are no moral issues raised here. You are supporting a lawsuit that is out to control a medium of entertainment and an economic subculture.

    You know people try controlling things down to that level, and usually things like Holocausts come out of it. I'd just avoid fascism/authoritarianism.

    First question to any individual who respects freedom should be: Does the government need to stick their nose in it? Have we really gotten to the point where we are so irresponsible with our money in gaming that we need the government to come in and punish these companies we willingly spend our money at?



    Yup, and the other major problem is this was already attempted in the 90s with lawsuits over CD Keys.

    No matter what argument these guys provide, the logic is still the same as it is with those older cases. Seeing as none of those were successful, I don't see how suing over OP will be.

    Now, as I said, legally you have every right to try and crack their code for generating Online Passes...



    But nobody is forcing you to buy it...

    The contentions raised in this lawsuit aren't about you buying a product that doesn't work as advertised, its about gaming companies who release buggy/broken games.

    I think its ignorant that people are avoiding personal responsibility for their own actions.

    If you can't be bothered to do research for yourself into the issue of whether a product you want to purchase works to your satisfaction, don't go to the government asking them to make it right.

    You're the guy who can't be bothered to spend their money wisely.



    Yup, and that was on the disc (atleast the day-1 DLC was). Hence clearly Oxy is against that, as am I.

    If its on the disc, clearly you developed it within the scope of the original game, ergo its not DLC and charging for it is unethical.

    My point isn't that these practices are right either, its that I fail to see why we are taking this to the Government for them to make decisions on it.

    This has absolutely nothing to do with anything of any importance. Its not about unfair banking practices, consumer privacy, trade laws, or product safety. Those types of things are either very large, complex issues (hence not common sense), things that are out of your control as an individual yet matter to your rights as an individual, or related to safety.

    This... Its about some people being unwilling to use their wallet to convey their point.

    And if you are using your wallet and its not working, clearly the public is not behind you. Doesn't mean you have to conform, but by doing this you clearly align yourself with an authoritarian viewpoint.

    And thats the reality...

    If we are talking about EA not keeping up their end of the deal on BF1943 or any other advertised bonus that doesn't come through? I am behind that 100%, If a company says publicly they are going to do X, you buy something and they don't follow through, that is a breech of your rights.

    This though? We need to sue publishers because of DLC, which none of us are forced to buy, and DRM, which in the EU and US is covered under dozens of protection acts already, and buggy games, which every gamer is perfectly capable of finding out before they buy something?

    Why? Why do we need to involve the government?

    (FYI, this is not a class action or personal lawsuit...)
    Controlling other people's opinions and choices, yeah, that'd be the day....


    You always put out a phenomenal amount of effort explaining and reasoning among these subjects, Gauss; hard not to respect you, even with our crossed opinions. :stare:

    And getting the government involved is nothing short of worrying...

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    Quote Originally Posted by spankynspronkle View Post
    Actually, I do. Apparently YOU don't.

    Madden NFL 12 for PlayStation 3 | GameStop + another $10 for the pass.... wouldn't that be $57.99 for a used title instead of $59.99 for a new title? Yea... any that isn't the only game. Resistance 3 used is listed for $47.99... Yet again, another $10 pass would make this a $2 savings... Shall I go on?



    Perhaps you should heed your own advice...
    Online prices don't merit what is priced inside stores. And even then, you are still getting it cheaper which is proving my point to the tee. Thx . But even using your example. Instead of paying $60 for a new game, you are now paying $47 for a used game. Which it's usually $55 or more used. So if you don't play online, you saved yourself atleast $7-13. Now if you play online, you saved yourself $2 overall. And I said you'd end up spending $1-2 more. I was off a $1 . But like I said, you can't go by GS.com's prices. Unless thats where you do all your shopping. In stores have different prices all the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by spankynspronkle View Post
    My original complaint was that it's not fair to charge for an online service if it is routinely shut down.
    I can kind of agree with that, but the charge is not really to support the online service of a game. It's for extra money that the developers potentially lose with used game sales.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Minarum View Post
    ...the charge is not really to support the online service of a game. It's for extra money that the developers potentially lose with used game sales.
    Which I agree with, but I also don't think it is entirely legal to do something like that. What EA is attempting to do on paper is not the actual intention of the company, as you pointed out, which is exactly why I am for some form federal intervention to make sure that the consumers are protected against unfair practices.

    I am all for an online pass assuming the players are protected. If I have to pay $10, I want a guaranteed time frame that I can use the service. Think of it this way, If you pay for a 1 year gym membership upfront and the gym closes shop in 8 months... You are rightfully owed a refund. If I am paying for online service, I deserve to know an exact shut down date, not just accept a time frame as "whenever we feel like it"

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    Quote Originally Posted by spankynspronkle View Post
    Which I agree with, but I also don't think it is entirely legal to do something like that. What EA is attempting to do on paper is not the actual intention of the company, as you pointed out, which is exactly why I am for some form federal intervention to make sure that the consumers are protected against unfair practices.

    I am all for an online pass assuming the players are protected. If I have to pay $10, I want a guaranteed time frame that I can use the service. Think of it this way, If you pay for a 1 year gym membership upfront and the gym closes shop in 8 months... You are rightfully owed a refund. If I am paying for online service, I deserve to know an exact shut down date, not just accept a time frame as "whenever we feel like it"
    Yah they do close their servers extremely early. It's most likely a marketing ploy to get the consumers to move on from the "older" game and onto the newer released game. Which I do understand and agree with you on. 2-3 years is a good time frame I'd say for a game that is released every year. But after a year and a half they do close em up sometimes depending how much traffic they receive.

    Now as for the gym membership deal lol. If they close up shop due to bankruptcy, gl getting a refund . You SHOULD be able to get a refund, but in the real world we don't. We always get burned on stuff all the time. But who is actually going to spend the money in court and lawyer fees fighting a potential ghost, and why do it? To prove a point? You'll spend more money then you'll receive, and it will just waste your time and money in the long run. Now if it was something huge, talking 10's to 100's of thousands of dollars, then that's a different story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spankynspronkle View Post
    Which I agree with, but I also don't think it is entirely legal to do something like that. What EA is attempting to do on paper is not the actual intention of the company, as you pointed out, which is exactly why I am for some form federal intervention to make sure that the consumers are protected against unfair practices[...]
    Ok, but three problems here:

    1) The practice isn't inherently unfair. EA is well within their rights and they are telling you up front this system is in place. You are quoting these prices for things that aren't EA's problem, they are Gamestop's problem.

    Seriously, can you explain to me how its unfair?

    2) You aren't paying for a 1-year membership for anything though, you are paying a one-time fee for permanent access to something (Online MP, some DLC, something).

    A better analogy would be you pay for a gym membership that lasts from now until whenever the manager doesn't have enough members to keep the gym open. Its pretty obvious nothing about that is wrong, it may be stupid, but its not wrong.

    Sometimes you get 8 months out of it, sometimes you get 2 years.

    3) You don't deserve to know an exact shut down date. You aren't paying for something for a specific period of time.

    Its no different than you don't deserve to know exactly how long your car will go on that tank of gas or don't deserve to know how long a meal will take to prepare. You aren't paying for a period of time, you are paying for an object.

    I still fail to see too where the federal government has any right to step in here, nothing is unethical, nothing is dishonest, and nothing is related to safety.

    Why are you in such a rush to bring this to the fed too? This is the same government that, just today, basically said its ok to suspend inalienable rights to people if they aren't US citizens. This is the same government that just wasted hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars of tax-payer money to decide fucking Pizza counts as a vegetable.

    I got a better idea, just spend your money the way you wanna spend it. If you don't like something, don't buy it.
    Gauss's Piracy Uncertainty Principle: When you pirate a game, that act inherently changes the results of what is to come after your pirating. You can't make any statement with any certainty regarding what would have happened had you not pirated the game.


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    8: A good game, should buy at some point
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    10: A game that goes above and beyond the generation, its transcendent.

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    Some of this is stupid, like the idea that you have to an internet to basically download patches ( DUH!), but point no 2 I actually agree, however I think they not just sue random companies, but a company who constantly does this again and again of which I think they aren't very many. All in all sounds a bit stupid 2 me lol

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    companies that release games that are full of bugs and glitches should get sued,to say its the consumers fault for buying a buggy game is absurd.

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    LMFAO a pizza a vegetable is that so people can feel good about getting fat

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gauss View Post
    1) The practice isn't inherently unfair. EA is well within their rights and they are telling you up front this system is in place. You are quoting these prices for things that aren't EA's problem, they are Gamestop's problem.

    Seriously, can you explain to me how its unfair?
    They really aren't though. They are telling you that you must own a online pass to unlock 100% of the original games content. Then they aren't letting you know how long the servers will last. Technically, you are buying something that has zero guarantee.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauss View Post
    2) You aren't paying for a 1-year membership for anything though, you are paying a one-time fee for permanent access to something (Online MP, some DLC, something).
    Exactly my point! It should be permanent, but we both know it's temporary...

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauss View Post
    3) You don't deserve to know an exact shut down date. You aren't paying for something for a specific period of time.
    Oh? But we are... Servers will be shut down within 2 years for games like NBA, Madden, NHL, Need for Speed... it's almost guaranteed. If we are paying for unlimited access as you pointed out in #2, then there is no problem, nor a need to know a time. However, since they will ultimately close servers, I feel it is our right to know how long this "membership" will last.

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    Although I agree with the complaints, I'm not quite sure if this lawsuit should win. I mean some things we should just deal with, especially if they involve videogames we decide to spend our money in. I'm kinda neutral to this topic.


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    maybe they should sue Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo as well for faulty systems or to many models within current generation. YLOD and Red ring of death. Most of the games not to buggy. All theses publishers need to do is set up separate teams to test on each system. I'm sure some newer models of current generation handle games like skyrim than the older fat ones.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbyblitzed View Post
    through the mail,duh.
    I suppose you have a way of checking your E-mail without the Internet. I'm curious as to what that is?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beast-Bombs View Post
    I suppose you have a way of checking your E-mail without the Internet. I'm curious as to what that is?
    the mail i was referring to usually comes in an envelope,delivered by a postal worker,they put the envelope in a box on the side of my house,its called a mail box.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gauss View Post
    This is the same government that just wasted hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars of tax-payer money to decide fucking Pizza counts as a vegetable.
    Pizza should count because of the corn that got stuck to the bottom of it when you picked it up lol

    Now back on topic

    I agree certain aspects of gaming could be better, but i'm not in favor of telling any business they cant do this or that unless it is directly affecting the health, well-being, or safety of the general public. People complain about online passes, yet buy games with them in droves so what is the companies incentive to stop? Its included in a new game so unless your buying a used game right away after its initial release your going to save money still. Especially when the game drops to the $40 or below mark which is usually when most people buy a game used.

    My biggest problem is don't you want to support your favorite games/franchises/companies? This is their livelihood and they should be compensated adequately. Especially when they are paying to run the servers and employees to patch the game post-release. Ten dollars isn't much in all honesty. So for the price of one movie in the theaters (sometimes its even more) you get countless hours of entertainment. I'd rather pay a little bit extra and have a company know that another person is playing their game. So in turn their incentive to make another sequel is higher then save a couple bucks and have it be the last in the series i might see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bobbyblitzed View Post
    the mail i was referring to usually comes in an envelope,delivered by a postal worker,they put the envelope in a box on the side of my house,its called a mail box.
    How could you patch a game with that!
    What they send you little USB's which you install patches from or something?
    Sounds kind of stupid to me.

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    Lets just sue everything that doesn't shoot edible laser beams and spout cash hourly, because they all owe it to us right?
    Sign here ...........................................

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beast-Bombs View Post
    How could you patch a game with that!
    What they send you little USB's which you install patches from or something?
    Sounds kind of stupid to me.
    it is stupid,that was the point.

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    lets see how this goes

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    Quote Originally Posted by Beast-Bombs View Post
    How could you patch a game with that!
    What they send you little USB's which you install patches from or something?
    Sounds kind of stupid to me.
    Maybe not for a game patch, but people still use the post office for receive big updates, software, games, etc, due to their lack of choices when it comes to internet. So something that sounds stupid, might be for most people that have broadband, but for those that don't. It's a life saver that the post office still exists. Besides, what do you think people used for updates and stuff when it was a 14.4k-56k modem connection? The post office.

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