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French Associsation sues Game publishers and retailers for DLC Bullshittery & More

This is a discussion on French Associsation sues Game publishers and retailers for DLC Bullshittery & More within the General PS3 Discussion forum, part of the Everything PlayStation; News - L'UFC Que Choisir attaque en justice les Úditeurs - 29/11/2011 - JeuxVideo.com Rough Translation: Maybe are you one ...

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    French Associsation sues Game publishers and retailers for DLC Bullshittery & More

    News - L'UFC Que Choisir attaque en justice les Úditeurs - 29/11/2011 - JeuxVideo.com


    Rough Translation:
    Maybe are you one of the people who feel spoiled by big video game publishers. Well, you should know that the UFC Que Choisir heard your complains and sued Codemasters, Warner Interactive, THQ and Bethesda, but also retailers like Micromania, Fnac Direct and Game France in order to "stop the unacceptable marketing tactics used by publishers and retailers".


    The complaints are :
    - The release of bug-ridden games that force the player to restart several times the same level in a row or even start a new game because of a not working save system.
    - Very short games completed with DLCs. The associations said "The editors sell expensive demos you have to complete with charged content"
    - Mandatory use of an Internet connection in order to activate a game, even to play in single player or to download patches.
    - DRMs and the Online Pass policy that are "only destined to kill the market of second-hand games"

    At the same time, an investigation request was sent to the GDCCFR (General Direction of Concurrence, Consumerism and Fraud Repression).

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    i cant believe these companies would have the audacity to require me to have an internet connection to download a patch.I hope they win this lawsuit on that alone.

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    Thats what u get Publishers!!!!!
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    How else would you download a patch without an internet connection?

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    How do you download bug fixing patches if you cannot access the internet?
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    Quote Originally Posted by BALLZ View Post
    How else would you download a patch without an internet connection?
    through the mail,duh.

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    Let's see here;

    - The release of bug-ridden games that force the player to restart several times the same level in a row or even start a new game because of a not working save system.
    I can somewhat agree to that, but gamers have accepted that games as big as Skyrim will have a difficult bug riddled launch. Games like Call of Duty, which happen to use the same engine every year and release with pretty much the same bugs every year, yeah that's what I hope they're targeting.


    - Very short games completed with DLCs. The associations said "The editors sell expensive demos you have to complete with charged content"
    I've never had to buy DLC to "complete" a game... If they perhaps reworded it so that they were suing against companies that insist on releasing bullshit DLC like content already on the disc which requires you to pay to unlock thinly disguised as DLC then yeah, but otherwise, DLC when done right is good for the industry, I don't see how expanding upon a game can be considered "bad" or even worth suing over...


    - Mandatory use of an Internet connection in order to activate a game, even to play in single player or to download patches.
    Mandatory internet connection to play single player, fuck that shit up.
    To download patches...well how else are they supposed to be distributed...

    - DRMs and the Online Pass policy that are "only destined to kill the market of second-hand games"
    DRM yes. Online passes they should stay the hell away from, that's to be decided amongst publishers and retailers.

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    I think its more to do with the need for every game to be patched.Most big games that came out this year where patched (Uncharted 3,Skyrim/Bf3,Cod)to name a few

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    I'm against Online Passes and DLC announced before the game comes out. I understand stuff like Map or Character Packs for CoD, but for example the issue with Arkham City, I think Nightwing and Robin could have been added with no trouble, but since they wanna make more money....I think $60 is enough. At least bring back the big old game manuals and not that 3-page, black and white piece of garbage.

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    Capcom isn't on that list

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    I think the thing with the patches is. That you should be able to download the patch off of your computer. Like you can with updates. And just install it on your system. You have to remember that over half the console sold are never hooked up to the internet. The first two years I had my PS3. The only time I even hooked it up to the internet was to download the newest firmware or sync my trophies when they started. I didn't play mp until CoD4. So I really didn't have a need to have it hooked up either. A lot of people who own consoles do not have the internet, or do not hook them up to the internet. But you can go just about anywhere these days and use a computer with internet. And download an update, game patches should be available the same way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BALLZ View Post
    How else would you download a patch without an internet connection?
    Yes you're right, how else are we supposed to get update patches?

    Also I hope this Lawsuit succeeds so I can stop worrying about buying games pre-owned in case they need an online pass.

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    I am for this type of thing in general, but here is my problem:

    1) They are bringing it to court to set precedent. This is what I don't like, yeah sure it seems good in theory to stab the mean old corporations in the back, but what will establishing this kind of precedent do in the future?

    This has a huge potential of hurting alot of legitimate things as well, like free content patches (yes, stuff mentioned on this list would damage free content as much as paid for), and can hinder the capability for people to release games on the open market if a precedent is set that they can be sued for any errors in the game.

    I'm not saying we all should buy games that are error ridden and like it, I'm saying WHY DO WE NEED A COURT SYSTEM TO CONTROL AND ENFORCE THIS?

    Jesus fucking christ people are so willing to just hand everything over to the government, and then people wonder why the political world is so screwed up right now. No its not cause of these big companies, its because you need the fucking courts to tell you Pizza is considered a vegetable.

    Just let the market fix itself... Only sue when there is a legitimate necessity or worry beyond some type of common sense or legitimately causes damages, like a safety issue that results in bodily harm or an unresolvable dispute between two parties.

    The outcomes of these types of suits have very lasting effects.

    2) DRMs are already covered by dozens of other laws, there is not a chance this will hold up in court. Every copyright and IP protection act thus far gives people the right to protect their property, but also gives people who buy it the right to break that protection.

    3) I don't think the Online Pass thing is going to go anywhere. This lawsuit was attempted before with CD Keys back in the 90s and that failed miserably, the same argument can be applied here.

    To those of you buying pre-owned, you just need to acknowledge you are hurting the developers/publishers bottom line more than anything else (including Piracy), and they have the right to do what they can to ensure their are fairly compensated for their work.

    Same as the DRM argument though, you are legally allowed to crack their codes so you can generate your own Online passes for free!

    4) For as much as it seems internet connection-required stuff (particularly for patch delivery) is present, it only bothers me when its a form of DRM. I have no problem with internet required for patch delivery or services that actually add value (see Dark Souls).

    Actually I prefer they didn't rule on a lawsuit that could end up damaging the PSN's and Steam's functionality in terms of updates and cloud service. Because, unfortunately, due to the wording in this article and the translation I have it sounds like it is all encompassing of anything requiring an internet connection to function, there isn't any implication here its only for DRM purposes. This ruling could harm Digital Distribution services just as much as Ubisoft's stupid DRM system.

    -----------------

    I'm sorry, I find this lawsuit to be full of good intentions executed with a level of stupidity that makes me fearful for the seemingly unavoidable authoritarian governments of the future.

    Once again here is a group that is seeking to protect the consumer by asking a government to parent them and punish those mean old Publishers and Retailers. I'd much rather them treat the consumers like smart, intelligent individuals and writing extensive editorials and providing legitimate data to show how these practices are unfair.

    And when push comes to shove I can't shake the feeling that this whole suit is just an entitled whine-fest. Like I said earlier if its covered by common sense or isn't putting you in danger, I really don't want to hear it in a civil court room.

    I'm responsible enough, and so is everybody else who posts here, to make up my own mind about DLC and DRM. The publishers/developers/retailers all have the right to make money where they can, but they aren't going to make money if people aren't spending it. If I don't want something, I'm perfectly capable of not buying it. By the same extension, if a company decides to release some new content, they are under no requirement (ethically or logically) to provide it to me for free.

    What parts of the lawsuit have merit enough to appear in the courtroom (DRM-related issues) are already covered by laws that would supercede anything to come out of this lawsuit, so why bother?
    Last edited by Gauss; 11-30-2011 at 12:40 PM.
    Gauss's Piracy Uncertainty Principle: When you pirate a game, that act inherently changes the results of what is to come after your pirating. You can't make any statement with any certainty regarding what would have happened had you not pirated the game.


    Gauss's Rating Rationale:
    0-1: A game whose very existence is abhorrent to all things creative and intelligent.
    2-4: A just plain bad game.
    5-6: A game that has alot of mistakes, but is atleast playable and has some enjoyable sections. Good for a rent.
    7: An average game, should be played at some point
    8: A good game, should buy at some point
    9: A great game, day-one purchase
    10: A game that goes above and beyond the generation, its transcendent.

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    All I hear is wah, wah, wah! Seriously, no one is forcing them to purchase the games. It's fucking entertainment. Publishers have the right to charge what they want, however they want. Supply and demand. It works on the principle that people will pay for what they want. If you don't want what is on offer, don't buy it. Simple as that. I've said it before, but I'm absolutely gobsmacked with the sense of entitlement a bunch of asshole gamers have.
    Gauss has made some good points in a far more eloquent manner than I have. This lawsuit is fucking ridiculous. It will get thrown out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shemhazat View Post
    How do you download bug fixing patches if you cannot access the internet?
    How about they release a game without bugs ? ( yes even thought is impossible, you know what I mean)
    DAM TIRED OF PUBLISHERS RUSHING THE GAME THAT`S NOT FINISHED.
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    Quote Originally Posted by YumeOMiru View Post
    How about they release a game without bugs ? ( yes even thought is impossible, you know what I mean)
    DAM TIRED OF PUBLISHERS RUSHING THE GAME THAT`S NOT FINISHED.
    And who is forcing you to spend money on it?

    If you buy a game that you feel is not finished to your expectations or to an unacceptable level, you have nobody else to blame for that except yourself.
    Gauss's Piracy Uncertainty Principle: When you pirate a game, that act inherently changes the results of what is to come after your pirating. You can't make any statement with any certainty regarding what would have happened had you not pirated the game.


    Gauss's Rating Rationale:
    0-1: A game whose very existence is abhorrent to all things creative and intelligent.
    2-4: A just plain bad game.
    5-6: A game that has alot of mistakes, but is atleast playable and has some enjoyable sections. Good for a rent.
    7: An average game, should be played at some point
    8: A good game, should buy at some point
    9: A great game, day-one purchase
    10: A game that goes above and beyond the generation, its transcendent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dr_mayus View Post
    Capcom isn't on that list
    Those were examples.

    All in all, everyone is fucking each other over, far from being a 2-sided argument.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gauss View Post
    And who is forcing you to spend money on it?

    If you buy a game that you feel is not finished to your expectations or to an unacceptable level, you have nobody else to blame for that except yourself.
    The problem for me is that the developers didn't bother, and that so many still buy into it, regardless.

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    What weird avatar said.
    Hand-bra Jeans

    The exposure of the female's soft body. Whether you like it or not, being naked to the waist and the mismatch between the hard and thick jeans. The true essence is the union of girly and boyish styles.At the same time, the hand-bra forces even the current girls that lack shameful feelings to make an embarrassing pose. Depending on how it is seen, it also shows a form of eroticism by making it look like the girls are rubbing their own breasts.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BALLZ View Post
    How else would you download a patch without an internet connection?
    someones unsecured WI FI lol
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    If you can't beat 'em, sue the crap out of 'em. That's what a lot of this sounds like to me.

    I have a different perspective on the online pass/re-sale market thingamajigie. I spent a year working in a college bookstore when I was younger, about a decade back (9/11 happened about halfway through my tenure). I pretty much ran Shipping & Receiving for most of that time, which isn't a particularly busy job for most of the year -- it gets hectic for about a month around the start of each semester, but there were days I literally had my feet up on my desk for seven-and-a-half hours of an eight hour day for lack of things to do. During the November/December slow period, I took on a bunch of responsibilities related to Textbook Buyback (I liked my boss, and it gave me something to do).

    So what's the point of this? I've seen the secondhand market from the other side of the counter, albeit a different industry. Taking what I learned from that experience and all the "inside knowledge" I accumulated, I have an understanding of the motivations and pressures on parties -- whether it's the customer, the originator of the product, or the "middleman".

    As far as online passes and the used market goes, I can't say I have much sympathy for anyone beyond the original manufacturer of a game. I hear customers crying that they have to buy a code to have the full functionality of the game.... and that's the way it should be. They're using a product without the originator gaining any benefit from its creation. Why should they get the benefit of a discount (you're not paying "new game" prices for "used games") and all the other privileges without the manufacturer getting anything? As for the GameStops of the world, they make a healthy pile of money brokering the purchase of a game from someone who is done with it and selling it to someone else. Sure, they're entitled to a little something for their time and energies, but it isn't like they're rewarding someone who designs and programs a game in the process.

    The people who take the real risks deserve the real rewards. The people who create products and content for other people deserve a heck of a lot more than the ones who simply shuffle said products and content from person to person. As for the customer, you get what you pay for: if you pay a cut-rate price, expect a cut-rate product.
    (this space intentionally left blank)

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