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Final Fantasy, a series in decline

This is a discussion on Final Fantasy, a series in decline within the General PS3 Discussion forum, part of the Everything PlayStation; Just GIVE US VERSUS AND I WILL YA MY MONEY, they just donīt have a clue what what game we ...

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    Just GIVE US VERSUS AND I WILL YA MY MONEY, they just donīt have a clue what what game we want. Nobody asked for more XIII ala "My fiaance is a loli and Iīm bum in bum clothe, hawt sister plz approve? " ( F*** you Snow)
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    Of course the series is in decline, just look at what they're doing to the franchise as a whole. As far as I'm concerned, FFXII will be the last FF game to matter.


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    Quote Originally Posted by The Legend Killer View Post
    I'll admit that I'm a huge Hironobu guy, but I still gave XIII a chance. I loved the series, so how could I not. Well, it sucked, plain and simple. I played about 5 hours worth and I couldn't take the monotony anymore, and for those of you who are going to say, it gets better at the 15 to 20 hour, screw that. A game is supposed to be good from the start, because if it isn't, I'm not going to be playing for long.

    Remember I'm not the only one who felt this way about the game. It was pretty universally disliked, and for several reasons. The characters weren't likable, the setting just didn't feel like Final Fantasy, the combat system seemed needlessly convuluted, and the story was bland and predictable. There was no sense of excitement, no sense of adventure.

    It pretty much showed from the beginning that it wasn't made by the original creators, and that turned a lot of people off, including myself.

    Perhaps if it had been released outside the Roman Numeral set, or been named something other than Final Fantasy, it would have been looked upon differently, but if it has Final Fantasy in it's title it better live up to the standards the series made up to that point, anything less is unacceptable.
    Surprisingly Doom shares in this opinion. In Latveria there's no love for Final Fantasy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubicant81 View Post
    We get it, a lot of people didn't like Final Fantasy XIII, it's getting a slight bit redundant. It just seems a little forced to say that story is bad because you didn't like it, when it obviously resonated with some people. To call the story predictable is quite laughable (I'd love to lie detector those people who say this and see how many predicted the ending), but is one person's individual opinion. The game is still a technical marvel in almost every aspect, and delivered one of the best user interfaces that any RPG has ever given us.
    I think the story is just a bit mixed, on one hand it has this realistic feeling, when the members are isolated and trying to find their way it really feels 'human'.

    But then you get all the empty sentences surrounding Hope and all the hero lines that Snow keeps returning to. I like cheesy one liners but they are usually used to end a sentence or a moment, in FF13 Snow's entire script is built around one liners! It's funny enough but I can see why it alienated a lot of people, it's why I wonder if maybe the game was translated weirdly.

    It's definitely one of the weirder FF games, not because of the events but the strange dialog, like when Snow gets over the death of the woman he just got killed very quickly (by having a one liner exchange with the Wakka looking dude), the story is told in a very weird and cookie way that that I think is more popular and normal in Japan.

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    ok..i used to be one of those gamers that hated final fantasy games. i never tried to follow a dumb arse story as final fantasy but i gave in last year to FF13. pretty damn good if i should say so. rpg's are nice to play but most ppl get to caught up in the story. should i play FF 1 to understand the FF series?...hell no. if its to straight to the point...who cares. i had fun and achieving that platinum for it. will i get FF13-2? maybe. 60% chance i will. am not a big fan of the series, i just enjoyed that game.

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    I'll admit up front right now that I've not played FF13, so take my take on things as either being uninformed or just completely unbiased. FF is FF, its always going to be a quality game. Its SE's flagship so they are not going to bring out crap for the sake of getting something out. Yeah, there might be something that can't match the highly stupid expectations of fans/trolls/stupid people (FFX-2) for example, but its still going to be a unique game.

    The problem for FF is that its always so unique that its not unique anymore. With the exception of the spin-offs like X-2 and now 13-2, every game is a whole new world where they change everything completely. FF2 introduced summoning, then FF3 revamped it into Espers, and then FF7 changed it again to Materia. They are always constantly changing the bar for the series that its actually surprising that the series hasn't gone bust yet. I don't say that as in go bust cause its bad but because every game is different that something new always brings the risk of failure, and they always run the risk with every game.

    With great success comes great expectations and also the stupidity of others that go along with it. FF is definitely not in decline. Even if it went on a couple game run of lower sales than previous titles it still outsells the vast majority of other games, not to mention the fandom surrounding it that fills SE's pockets from merchandise sales.

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    With every FF game you have your lovers and your haters, but most of the hardcore fans find enough good in every game to justify their love for the series. FFXIII seemed to turn off even the most fanboyish of fans. Everything about it felt sterile and uninspired. I believe that's why the sales have been poor for the subsequent sequel.

    Plus there are other JRPG series that are starting to take some of the luster away from the FF franchise. Persona in particular because of it's style and themes has definitely started to garner it's own following, and has become, I believe, FF's main rival in the JRPG field.

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    It's a bit off topic, but seeing as how most players don't like XIII, what do you think of XII?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Assassin View Post
    It's a bit off topic, but seeing as how most players don't like XIII, what do you think of XII?
    It made me sleepy every time I played it :\

    It was well made with lots of care put into it but it wasn't my thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Legend Killer View Post
    With every FF game you have your lovers and your haters, but most of the hardcore fans find enough good in every game to justify their love for the series. FFXIII seemed to turn off even the most fanboyish of fans. Everything about it felt sterile and uninspired. I believe that's why the sales have been poor for the subsequent sequel.

    Plus there are other JRPG series that are starting to take some of the luster away from the FF franchise. Persona in particular because of it's style and themes has definitely started to garner it's own following, and has become, I believe, FF's main rival in the JRPG field.
    Seriously? Ever heard about all these bitches cry about FFXII, or VII, or VIII, or IX? They have as many haters as XIII does.

    You mean Persona, that one franchise that doesn't even have a game in the PS3 and still lives in the PS2/PSP? Yeah, they are surely taking FF's consumers away this generation...

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    To be quite honest I really think the reason FF13 has so many people that hate it is the same reason so many people supposedly hate Call of Duty. It's the cool thing on the internet to do. And if you do like it you are a fag. FFX was awesome people loved it and it was pretty much as linear as 13. I don't think you can say a game franchise is in decline because of sales numbers alone in Japan, because who knows how it will do in the rest of the world. I know I can't wait for the game.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Assassin View Post
    It's a bit off topic, but seeing as how most players don't like XIII, what do you think of XII?
    Quote Originally Posted by HugeGremlins View Post
    It made me sleepy every time I played it :\

    It was well made with lots of care put into it but it wasn't my thing.
    Final Fantasy XII was the first game in the series that wasn't created by Square's main development team. I really think that of the entire series, it is the game that feels the least Final Fantasy-like. It was originally intended to be a game in which you were able to play with 3 player simultaneously online and that idea was scrapped when they couldn't find a way to pull it off. I like the battle system, and a lot of the fights in the game have an epic feel, but you can tell a lot of times that it probably would have been a better experiences if instead of relying on the gambit system, that you had a couple buddies playing along side with you.

    It also was the first time a FInal Fantasy game was placed in an already made world. Ivalice had already been showcased on two Gameboy Advance titles, and this visit tried to spread upon an already pre-existing lore. The lore of Final Fantasy Tactics Advance has it's own nuances, that aren't exactly traditional nuances - such as the look of moogles, and it's own set of races. The game suffered from having a standout identity, because it wasn't allowed to roam freely by it's own history - and it felt awfully confining to have to deal with so many instances that another game set out for it, that didn't allow the Final Fantasy main series uniqueness shine.

    It's not one of my favorite games in the series, but I completely understand that to a certain crowd it completely works for them. One of my best friends is a huge fan of the game, and knows it inside and out, and we both understand why it works for him and not for me, and isn't something that works for everyone.

    Chances are if you liked Final Fantasy XII a lot, you will also enjoy Xenoblade Chronicles on the Wii, since both games offer a lot of similarities in terms of the way the worlds are set up, and the quest systems unfold.

    ------

    And for those who want to see the final sales for this week in Japan, Final Fantasy XIII-2 finished first by a landslide.

    Half a million Final Fantasy fans can't be wrong. Or can they? I don't think they are with what I've played of Final Fantasy XIII-2 so far. But, some people are stuck in the past. They'll only be happy with a the old 16-bit structure, or an HD remake of Final Fantasy VII. "Everything new sucks," they say.

    What doesn't suck is half a million copies sold in the first week. The latest Media Create numbers out of Japan show that Square Enix's latest topped the sales charts. Note that this 525,271 number is only the PS3 version. There's some Xbox 360 units to add to that, but Andriasang says that this version didn't even rank in the top 20.

    Capcom's Monster Hunter 3G for 3DS was the next closest to the top, but didn't even manage to come in with half the numbers for the week. Still, the game is nearing 1 million copies sold since release. Vita games Hot Shots Golf 6 and Uncharted Golden Abyss managed to also make the top ten.

    See the full list after the jump.

    01. [PS3] Final Fantasy XIII-2 (Square Enix, 12/15): 525,271
    02. [3DS] Monster Hunter 3G (Capcom, 12/10): 208,427 (730,386)
    03. [3DS] Mario Kart 7 (Nintendo, 12/01): 182,418 (789,871)
    04. [3DS] Inazuma Eleven Go (Level-5, 12/15): 135,259
    05. [3DS] Super Mario 3D Land (Nintendo, 11/03): 112,533 (837,143)
    06. [WII] Kirby Wii (Nintendo, 10/27): 71,028 (398,516)
    07. [PSV] Hot Shots Golf 6 (Sony, 12/17): 61,412
    08. [PSV] Uncharted Golden Abyss (Sony, 12/17): 48,224
    09. [WII] Just Dance Wii (Nintendo, 10/13): 44,021 (323,293)
    10. [WII] Poke Park 2 (Pokemon, 11/12): 43,829 (164,018)
    11. [WII] Wii Party (Pokemon, 07/08/10): 42,632 (2,129,236)
    12. [NDS] Magician's Quest: The Merchant's Store of Sorcery (Konami, 12/10): 35,068 (81,110)
    13. [WII] Mario & Sonic at London Olympics (Pokemon, 11/12): 34,351 (64,573)
    14. [PS3] Shin Kamaitachi no Yoru (Chunsoft, 12/17): 33,686
    15. [PS3] BlazBlue Continuum Shift Extend (Arc System Works, 12/17): 32,992
    16. [WII] Wii Sports Resort (Nintendo, 11/11/10): 30,804 (734,046)
    17. [WII] Taiko Drum Master Wii Ultimate Version (Namco Bandai, 11/23): 30,046 (100,284)
    18. [PSV] Dynasty Warriors Next (Tecmo Koei, 12/17): 29,181
    19. [PSV] Lord of Apocalypse (Square Enix, 12/17): 28,742
    20. [NDS] One Piece Gigant Battle! 2 (Namco Bandai, 11/17): 28,406 (207,458)
    Source: Final Fantasy XIII-2 sells over 500,000 in its first week -Destructoid

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silent Assassin View Post
    It's a bit off topic, but seeing as how most players don't like XIII, what do you think of XII?
    XII definitely was different, and yet it still had that FF feel. I will admit that when I first started playing that one I didn't get into it, but it did not take long for me to find it's true greatness. XII in a lot of ways felt like a breath of fresh air for the series, which is a lot more than I can say for XIII.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nagflar View Post
    Seriously? Ever heard about all these bitches cry about FFXII, or VII, or VIII, or IX? They have as many haters as XIII does.

    You mean Persona, that one franchise that doesn't even have a game in the PS3 and still lives in the PS2/PSP? Yeah, they are surely taking FF's consumers away this generation...
    Did you read my statement? I believe I said something along the lines of every FF title has it's haters and lovers. But I do not believe any other title garnered the kind of hate that XIII did.

    So Persona has no following or isn't any good because it's not on the PS3 yet? That's what you're basing your argument on? C'mon Bro, you're smarter than that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Legend Killer View Post



    Did you read my statement? I believe I said something along the lines of every FF title has it's haters and lovers. But I do not believe any other title garnered the kind of hate that XIII did.
    I've been hanging around message boards for quite a long time, and been in a lot of circles of friends who have played Final Fantasy since it's earliest days. I'll say that no game, in my memory ever got more crap shoveled on it than Final Fantasy VIII did when it got released. The flame wars that would go on in chatroom's and places like Gamefaqs message boards back then for that game were the things of legends.

    You would have people who played the game from the beginning being baffled by the ridiculous battle system, and the penalties that the game put upon you for leveling - something that grind whores to this day still bitch about. Not to mention that the fact that had a song with lyrics included in it also seemed to drive some people up the wall.

    Then there were those who only played Final Fantasy VII since the game was so many people's gateway drug to the series, that were upset that Square didn't release a game with Cloud, Tifa, and Sephiroth in it - something that has been bitched about by some about every game since. Everything about the game was foreign to them, and because it wasn't a continuation of the previous title - the amount of hate that was given to the game were substantial from people who didn't know better.

    Final Fantasy VIII to this day still gets a backlash from people who were disappointed with it early on, and never got two hours into it, and summarize how shitty it is.

    I myself enjoy Final Fantasy VIII thoroughly, and love the story, characters, and plot, despite the fact that it undoubtedly had the stupidest battle system ever conceived in a Final Fantasy title. I know it's difficult for some to remember what things were like from more than a decade ago, but the onslaught of hate that Final Fantasy VIII got from the majority of people who played it, dwarfs what the trolls and bashers for Final Fantasy XIII have done, and been able to do with considerably more arguments that were better elaborated on. So let's not be prisoners of the moment and think just because there are more places than ever to post, tweet, comment, upload your hate on Final Fantasy XIII, that the backlash was even remotely close to what Final Fantasy VIII had during it's time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubicant81 View Post
    I've been hanging around message boards for quite a long time, and been in a lot of circles of friends who have played Final Fantasy since it's earliest days. I'll say that no game, in my memory ever got more crap shoveled on it than Final Fantasy VIII did when it got released. The flame wars that would go on in chatroom's and places like Gamefaqs message boards back then for that game were the things of legends.

    You would have people who played the game from the beginning being baffled by the ridiculous battle system, and the penalties that the game put upon you for leveling - something that grind whores to this day still bitch about. Not to mention that the fact that had a song with lyrics included in it also seemed to drive some people up the wall.

    Then there were those who only played Final Fantasy VII since the game was so many people's gateway drug to the series, that were upset that Square didn't release a game with Cloud, Tifa, and Sephiroth in it - something that has been bitched about by some about every game since. Everything about the game was foreign to them, and because it wasn't a continuation of the previous title - the amount of hate that was given to the game were substantial from people who didn't know better.

    Final Fantasy VIII to this day still gets a backlash from people who were disappointed with it early on, and never got two hours into it, and summarize how shitty it is.

    I myself enjoy Final Fantasy VIII thoroughly, and love the story, characters, and plot, despite the fact that it undoubtedly had the stupidest battle system ever conceived in a Final Fantasy title. I know it's difficult for some to remember what things were like from more than a decade ago, but the onslaught of hate that Final Fantasy VIII got from the majority of people who played it, dwarfs what the trolls and bashers for Final Fantasy XIII have done, and been able to do with considerably more arguments that were better elaborated on. So let's not be prisoners of the moment and think just because there are more places than ever to post, tweet, comment, upload your hate on Final Fantasy XIII, that the backlash was even remotely close to what Final Fantasy VIII had during it's time.
    Well you answered your own post. VIII came on the heels of VII and consequently got heat because it was different. Still VIII has a huge following and I've never heard a disproportionate hate to those who like/love it. I'm one of those who actually loved it over VII. The hate mostly came from blinded VII fanboys who apparently jerked off to pictures of Cloud and Sephiroth. XIII doesn't really have that excuse. XII had already been out a long time, so there was no real comparison from one to the next.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Legend Killer View Post
    Well you answered your own post. VIII came on the heels of VII and consequently got heat because it was different. Still VIII has a huge following and I've never heard a disproportionate hate to those who like/love it. I'm one of those who actually loved it over VII. The hate mostly came from blinded VII fanboys who apparently jerked off to pictures of Cloud and Sephiroth. XIII doesn't really have that excuse. XII had already been out a long time, so there was no real comparison from one to the next.
    Still, it had hate, either unjustly or justly from a fan base that was built off of Final Fantasy VII; and Final Fantasy VIII also anger quite a few longtime fans, for reasons that made a lot more sense than complaining about linearity, voice acting, or whatever else you might throw out there.

    I wouldn't even consider the backlash from Final Fantasy XIII in the ballpark of titles such as Final Fantasy VIII, Final Fantasy XI, or the worst perpetrator which came out less than a year after Final Fantasy XIII, Final Fantasy XIV. Which had stronger arguments against them that weren't so heavily directed on one's own opinion, as much as they suffered from major technical flaws or extreme changes that alienated their fan base in such a way that it's difficult to argue against. So I stand by what I said - Final Fantasy XIII's hate, much like it's flaws, are blown ridiculously out of proportion by people who want to use it as an excuse.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubicant81 View Post
    And for those who want to see the final sales for this week in Japan, Final Fantasy XIII-2 finished first by a landslide.

    it didn't beat tales of xillia

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ps360 View Post
    it didn't beat tales of xillia
    Yes and a 3 month old game that, from a 3 month old article, that sold a few dozen more titles is "takin over" when it is no longer in the top 20 of the charts. At least this article didn't have a dollar sign for you to screw up the placement on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubicant81 View Post
    Still, it had hate, either unjustly or justly from a fan base that was built off of Final Fantasy VII; and Final Fantasy VIII also anger quite a few longtime fans, for reasons that made a lot more sense than complaining about linearity, voice acting, or whatever else you might throw out there.

    I wouldn't even consider the backlash from Final Fantasy XIII in the ballpark of titles such as Final Fantasy VIII, Final Fantasy XI, or the worst perpetrator which came out less than a year after Final Fantasy XIII, Final Fantasy XIV. Which had stronger arguments against them that weren't so heavily directed on one's own opinion, as much as they suffered from major technical flaws or extreme changes that alienated their fan base in such a way that it's difficult to argue against. So I stand by what I said - Final Fantasy XIII's hate, much like it's flaws, are blown ridiculously out of proportion by people who want to use it as an excuse.
    I loved FF8, I didn't have the internet at the time so all I knew is I was getting a sequel to FF7. It's silly but I never knew the game penalized you for leveling until I was older

    I'm actually giving FF13 another shot and enjoying it this time, I disliked the battle system previously but I'm okay with it now, not sure whats changed since I never hated the game but it was disappointing when I first played it.

    I'v been playing retro games so maybe it helps appreciate the small things like fast loading menus, no random battles etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubicant81 View Post
    Yes and a 3 month old game that, from a 3 month old article, that sold a few dozen more titles is "takin over" when it is no longer in the top 20 of the charts. At least this article didn't have a dollar sign for you to screw up the placement on.
    still sold more in the first week

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