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Final Fantasy, a series in decline

This is a discussion on Final Fantasy, a series in decline within the General PS3 Discussion forum, part of the Everything PlayStation; Originally Posted by http://www.psxextreme.com/ps3-news/10403.html Recently, we heard the first Japanese shipment of Final Fantasy XIII-2 would be about half the ...

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    Final Fantasy, a series in decline

    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.psxextreme.com/ps3-news/10403.html
    Recently, we heard the first Japanese shipment of Final Fantasy XIII-2 would be about half the size of the initial Final Fantasy XIII shipment.

    And now, despite what can only be viewed as relatively decent sales numbers, it seems FFXIII-2 is marking the franchise's perceived popularity decline. Check it out:

    Everyone is talking about the latest tallied sales figures; the long-time fans have noticed that thus far, FFXIII-2 hasn't even outsold Final Fantasy III on the SNES. The industry was considerably smaller back then, ya know. Furthermore, if you compare the sales of FFXIII-2 to some of the more popular installments during the PS1 and PS2 eras, the picture starts to get clearer... We're making no judgments on this; we'll let the readers hash it out.

    By the way, does anyone else find it supremely hilarious that the Xbox 360 version of FFXIII-2 has sold around 10,000 copies compared to the 525k the PS3 version sold? Why even bother to release the 360 version in Japan?
    This link creates kind of a clear picture...Final Fantasy 13-2 sold about a third of what 13 sold and other titles before it. Also notice that FF13 sold less than FF 10-2 sold(a game that is largly disliked among FF fans)

    The numbers should start to paint a fucking clue for SE, but they are too blinded by the success of the COD series to give a damn, it seems. What a shame.

    There's also a rumor that FFXV will be unveiled at 2012 E3 and it will be available on all major platforms. I'm not even excited nor care that a new FF is on its works seeing as how a game (Versus 13) announced in 2006 that seems to have the highest following has yet to be released.

    From what I understand FF Type-O is a good game, which favors the 'Square has only been good to handhelds lately' belief.

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    FF13-2 hasn't even been released in Western counntries yet, so I'll wait before making any judgements.




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    Well if the music I heard while watching a video showing someone riding around on a Chocobo is the actual music in the game I can see why it isn't selling that good. In fact, I'm still not sure I want to play the game knowing that there's a chance the music from the video I mentioned is the actual music while riding the Chocobo's. It doesn't feel like a Final Fantasy game and it honestly took away any excitement I had for XIII-2.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kerwan_Ratchet View Post
    FF13-2 hasn't even been released in Western counntries yet, so I'll wait before making any judgements.
    I didn't say FF13-2 nor does the articles say FF13-2 is a bad game, it says the series is in decline, and that is a fact.

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    it's tough to A) come up with another new concept for this game that exceeds the original versions, and B) the people who grew up with these games are getting older and don't necessarily have the time to put 100+ hours into a game to grind out levels and do sidequests and play the (yecch) minigame. Occasionally they make a flop in this series (and everyone has a different one for what that is), but they are still better games than a lot of what comes out. FF13 was the first one i haven't gotten, just because i don't have the time for another FF game anymore. I also heard a lot of bad things about it, but i heard the same bad things about how FF12 sucked, but i really enjoyed it and it's batte system, which made it very easy to build levels.

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    I went into FFXIII optimistic but just couldn't play it, I guess at some point they were gonna run out of stories to tell, maybe it was better in Japanese? Who knows what happens to things during translation.

    The gameplay was kinda sad too though, sitting somewhere between real-time and turn-based but with none of the benefits of either, although some people genuinely enjoyed it.

    I hope they kick back into gear, FFVI through to FFX created some of the most fun games I have played, would be sad to see that legacy end like this.

    With that said though, this gen hasn't been that great for JRPGs in general, gotta try Resonance of Fate though, only found out about it yesterday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LiLPlaya0o0 View Post
    I didn't say FF13-2 nor does the articles say FF13-2 is a bad game, it says the series is in decline, and that is a fact.
    no, but it's tough to base "declining sales figures" on a game that hasn't been released yet. If no one played it, then there is no opinion - good or bad - to drive sales. It could be the greatest FF ever, but until it gets released and word of mouth spreads, we won't know.

    it would have been better had the article said that the percentage of sales for the countries it is currently released in versus the same percentage of sales for the SNES for those same countries. They are probably basing it off total SNES sales of FF3, which would include a large percentage of US sales. it's not a fair comparison.

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    obligatory post for any final fantasy xiii-2 thread

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    Well seeing that it has only been released in Japan and most stores do not even sell 360's in Japan anymore we will have to wait to find out how Final Fantasy is really doing when it comes to an outside country.

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    So the games only been out for a few days, and is already a commercial failure? Only if you compare it to Final Fantasy XIII's sales. The game is still going to be in the upper portion of the sales charts (Number 1 selling PS3 game for the week), and if it is as good as the critical response is, it will pick up a little steam further along.

    The reason the game isn't selling well, is because it's a spin-off to one of the games that was judged quite harshly by the fans of the series and genre who didn't like the changes on it. That's people's prerogative to do so. I think people are a bit overly harsh on what is termed "bad" by the game, and if you compare it to nearly every other JRPG of this generation will find it as linear, befuddling, and short cited as nearly every title in the genre.

    Is the Final Fantasy series as a whole in decline? Certainly, the entire genre is suffering to find it's place in this generation of titles in which gamer's have said with their dollar that they prefer other genres to JRPGs which normally take too long, require a certain amount of reading, and normally has stories that take many, if not dozens, of hours to develop properly. I am not entirely sure if the attention span of the majority of this generation care for that. The JRPG genre is just a bit too confining in it's current state, and doesn't allow people the freedoms that it's Western counterparts do. But to say that it's in it's demise (a word which would mean it's dying) when it is still a commercially viable franchise that isn't limited by a set of characters, world, or preset play style is foolhardy.

    Final Fantasy as a series has changed over the years, Hironobu Sakaguchi is gone, Nobuo Uematsu no longer creates the soundtrack, even Yoshitaka Amano does only the title art to this point. The series is not the same it was, and has moved on. I just don't think that the fan base has done the same, too many clamor to wanting remakes, or making comparisons to past games, or come into each new entry knowing they aren't going to like it because it isn't going to be the the past title they adore. Add that to an internet generation in which people go far too often off of game play videos, critical responses or some guy on a forum's opinion instead of going into it with an open mind and playing it themselves - the games are more often than not going to fail without given a chance.

    So am I going to cancel my pre-order or assume the game isn't going to be to my liking because it didn't sell as well as it's predecessor or because some guy on a site posted an article that the series is dying? No way. Square Enix has been far from perfect with a lot of it's decisions in this decade, but they are still the company that makes the majority of the titles that stuck with me even through the MMO, new development crews, and prolonged production cycle era. I'm going to go into this one, the same way I did the last one - expecting little, experiencing as much as I can, and not focusing on the bad - despite how much the internet tries and jam it down my throat that I am suppose to hate it.

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    What are you saying? That FFXIII-2 didn't sell a million copies in a day so the franchise is in decline?


    Call me when the franchise is actually making shitty games, then I'll care.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagflar View Post

    Call me when the franchise is actually making shitty games, then I'll care.
    Ring Ring Ring

    "Hello Mr Nagflar, just ringing to let you know FFXIII was a little bit shitty.

    Thank you for using our services and we will be sure to notify you of any further shitness."

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    Quote Originally Posted by HugeGremlins View Post
    Ring Ring Ring

    "Hello Mr Nagflar, just ringing to let you know FFXIII was a little bit shitty.

    Thank you for using our services and we will be sure to notify you of any further shitness."

    Ring Ring Ring


    "Hello Mr 'HugeGremlins', I recieved a phone call from you a couple of minutes ago which consisted of bullshit. Call me when you've got some sense in your brain, and stop wasting both your and, specially, my time.

    Thanks for being useless and I'll notify you if any further bullshit I receive from you."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagflar
    Ring Ring Ring

    "Hello Mr 'HugeGremlins', I recieved a phone call from you a couple of minutes ago which consisted of bullshit. Call me when you've got some sense in your brain, and stop wasting both your and, specially, my time.

    Thanks for being useless and I'll notify you if any further bullshit I receive from you."
    Ring Ring Ring

    "Hello Mr Nagflar, is it ok I call you Susan?

    Susan I am the director of Gremlins Inc. and I am ringing on behalf of the receptionist you just recently abused.

    It is my understanding that you entered into a contract with us under the agreement that we would contact you in the event that a shitty game was released under the Final Fantasy brand.

    My receptionist Jenny BigHugeGiantBoobs was only fulfilling her obligations as Gremlins Inc. receptionist, which is to inform our ungrateful customers of any shittyness prevalent in current gaming franchises.

    It is not her job however to be on the receiving end of sandstorms blowing from your cantankerous and wild vagina.

    We are hereby terminating the contract with you Susan, further we will be keeping the deposit of rainbow candy you provided us at its inception."

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    I really don't see where people come off saying Final Fantasy XIII was shitty. I'd love the see where the game was broken to the point in which it was "shit." If it wasn't to your individuality liking, that is one issue, but to say it was bad is a bit much. Everybody consistently harps on the things that they didn't like, and overlook what the game did well.

    Final Fantasy XIII was not a bad game, by any means - it wasn't glitch ridden, it didn't suffer from any technical flaws, it's still one of the most beautiful titles on the system, and it offered a deep resonating story that a lot of people who actually played the game enjoyed and felt was worthy of the franchise name.

    But if it wasn't your ideal good time, guess what?

    You didn't like the game cause it was linear? Final Fantasy XIII-2 by all accounts isn't linear.
    You didn't like the game's playable characters? Got two new PC's and a plethora of monsters to use in this one.
    You felt that the battle system was one in which you just hit one button repeatedly and win? They tweaked the battle system for this one so that it is more challenging.

    All of the above which I felt were a bit harshly judged or completely untrue (I'd love to see the "Let's Play" of a person using only the auto-battle system and beating the game, which I've been informed by numerous people is all you do to beat the game). But if you hate it, that's your opinion - but they also listened to the fans and critics who hated those things and did their best to fix it, albeit if you didn't sit down and play through the first one entirely you might be a little lost with the sequel, but that's your choice.

    But then again, people are going to bitch - cause they can, regardless of what the game has in it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubicant81 View Post
    Final Fantasy XIII was not a bad game, by any means - it wasn't glitch ridden, it didn't suffer from any technical flaws, it's still one of the most beautiful titles on the system, and it offered a deep resonating story that a lot of people who actually played the game enjoyed and felt was worthy of the franchise name.
    It was linear as all hell, and it seemed like the "Gameplay" was just something to keep you moving from cutscene to cutscene which annoyed the heck out of me. But while I couldn't beat more than the first chapter, I'm not going to say it was the demise of the franchise...

    If VIII couldn't kill it, 13 won't either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The MunchKING View Post
    It was linear as all hell, and it seemed like the "Gameplay" was just something to keep you moving from cutscene to cutscene which annoyed the heck out of me. But while I couldn't beat more than the first chapter, I'm not going to say it was the demise of the franchise...

    If VIII couldn't kill it, 13 won't either.
    Playing the first chapter and calling it linear without going further would be like playing the first battle in Valkyria Chronicles and calling it an easy game. It's not like there weren't branching areas in the game with optional parts of the map to find treasure or solve some puzzles to open up other paths. Outside of the lack of a walkable world map (something Final Fantasy X didn't have either), the dungeon design was similar to almost every other title in the genre, except the game put caps on your abilities and job selections until Chapter 10, and then in Chapter 11 opened up to an area that had so much content that it's slightly overwhelming as to what to tackle first. Not to mention Final Fantasy XIII was the only title with post game content that allowed you to delve further.

    It doesn't matter though, if your opinion is one of dislike, you're entitled to it. But judging the game from the first chapter and hearsay of what is beyond that doesn't exactly show that you have enough knowledge on the subject to make a fair judgment on the game. You're perfectly entitled to not want to go any further and decide it isn't for you, but unless you played the game beyond what basically is the tutorial portion of the game, it would be like a person hating a game based on a demo alone telling somebody that they played a game and it was bad.
    Last edited by Rubicant81; 12-22-2011 at 11:52 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubicant81 View Post
    All of the above which I felt were a bit harshly judged or completely untrue (I'd love to see the "Let's Play" of a person using only the auto-battle system and beating the game, which I've been informed by numerous people is all you do to beat the game).
    The people who say this generally haven't played that much of the game. Yes for the first few chapters you can do this, but if you try this later you will get slaughtered.

    Also the linear thing I have brought up with many people showing them that all the old FFs were very linear as well but they hid it in a non-linear world. Yes the open world is big but you can still only go to the next town.

    FF6 is my favourite Final Fantasy of all time (and is in my top 5 games of all time) I once made a list of how to play the game and guess what until the world of Ruin it is ridiculously linear (and the world of ruin is about the same game length as Chapter 11). People like to complain but I found FF13 to be one of my favourites in the series.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rubicant81 View Post
    It doesn't matter though, if your opinion is one of dislike, you're entitled to it. But judging the game from the first chapter and hearsay of what is beyond that doesn't exactly show that you have enough knowledge on the subject to make a fair judgment on the game. You're perfectly entitled to not want to go any further and decide it isn't for you, but unless you played the game beyond what basically is the tutorial portion of the game, it would be like a person hating a game based on a demo alone telling somebody that they played a game and it was bad.
    I played until they broke out of the city. I wasn't ccounting the tutorial bit in the 'first chapter'.

    When you broke out of the city at the end of the first bit in 7, it was to allow you access to the world map so you could go wherever you wanted in the story.

    Likewise in 6, except the first city was a statistically insignificant amount of time rather than 20 hours on it's own (Hyperbole, but not much).

    The rest of them gave you a lot more freedom from the very beginning (except Admittedly X, not sure why I like that one so much more than XIII). The point is, no choices, and barely any room to do anything except "Straight down this path and to the next cutscene", as well as the insane AMOUNT of said cutscenes (which didn't dimish after they'd established the plot or anything. I mean I expect a lot of cutscenes at the beginning to establish setting, Motivation, etc. But they just KEPT DOING IT. ALL THE TIME.) led me to dislike it. And I don't really think that calling 10+ hours on a game "The opening fight" and "Not giving it a fair shake" really applies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by The MunchKING View Post
    I played until they broke out of the city. I wasn't ccounting the tutorial bit in the 'first chapter'.

    When you broke out of the city at the end of the first bit in 7, it was to allow you access to the world map so you could go wherever you wanted in the story.

    Likewise in 6, except the first city was a statistically insignificant amount of time rather than 20 hours on it's own (Hyperbole, but not much).

    The rest of them gave you a lot more freedom from the very beginning (except Admittedly X, not sure why I like that one so much more than XIII). The point is, no choices, and barely any room to do anything except "Straight down this path and to the next cutscene", as well as the insane AMOUNT of said cutscenes (which didn't dimish after they'd established the plot or anything. I mean I expect a lot of cutscenes at the beginning to establish setting, Motivation, etc. But they just KEPT DOING IT. ALL THE TIME.) led me to dislike it. And I don't really think that calling 10+ hours on a game "The opening fight" and "Not giving it a fair shake" really applies.
    You originally said you couldn't make it past the first chapter, now you made it out of the city? Final Fantasy's have been full of CG cutscenes since Final Fantasy VII, and comparatively to many other titles of this generation (The Uncharted series comes to mind) is something that is quite normal. If you managed to make it "out of the city" in 10 hours, you obviously didn't explore the maps too well, or go out of the way for the hunts or side treasures, but that's up to you and your play style, like I said earlier, the dungeon design is nothing that is more linear than any of the other games in the series. If you didn't like it, you didn't like it - but initially you didn't say that you made it that far in the game.

    Fact remains, many more people it appears are on your side than mine, in that they didn't play it in it's entirely or just didn't like it, that the sequel (despite it's improvements) is going to suffer in sales by opinions, thoughts, and word of mouth on the previous title alone. Regardless of how much improvements it has in it's game play, the fact that it has Final Fantasy XIII in it's title, is going to detract some people from purchasing it, fair or not.

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