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Id Software Lays off people , Ruins Doom 4 by consolizing it.

This is a discussion on Id Software Lays off people , Ruins Doom 4 by consolizing it. within the General PS3 Discussion forum, part of the Everything PlayStation; Originally Posted by ant1th3s1s You're simply reinforcing my argument as to why game developers focus on consoles...look at the headaches ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ant1th3s1s View Post
    You're simply reinforcing my argument as to why game developers focus on consoles...look at the headaches caused by the vast array of different PC configurations.
    so your saying developers are lazy so they put their games on consoles


    developers need to learn to deal with it and make it right. no one had pc problems till console took dominance over development

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ps360 View Post
    crysis 2 was fucking terrible compared to crysis 1. There was also no demo.
    I disagree ever so slightly, Crysis 1 was brilliant apart from the stupid floaty bits which were an absolute game-killer, Crysis 2 started slow but by god i enjoyed it more overall and after Bulletstorm, it was the best FPS of the year (Portal 2 not counting)

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    Quote Originally Posted by SonofSonofvenom View Post
    I disagree ever so slightly, Crysis 1 was brilliant apart from the stupid floaty bits which were an absolute game-killer, Crysis 2 started slow but by god i enjoyed it more overall and after Bulletstorm, it was the best FPS of the year (Portal 2 not counting)
    Crysis 2 better than Battlefield 3? LOLOLOLOOLLOLLOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ps360 View Post
    so your saying developers are lazy so they put their games on consoles


    developers need to learn to deal with it and make it right. no one had pc problems till console took dominance over development
    You're clearly too young to make a sweeping comment like that. Hardware configurations have always been a problem for PC gaming, and I've been doing it since the days of Windows 3. Trust me junior, gaming is much more plug-and-play now than it ever has been.

    The problem is the complexity of modern games which run millions of lines of code. That has nothing to do with the rise of the console, it's origins are more rooted in PC GPU/CPU processing power, which has fed downstream into the simpler hardware running console games.

    Getting that code to play friendly with hundreds of popular PC device drivers is significantly more difficult to debug compared to a single hardware configuration for 360 and another for PS3. If it blows out your budget by millions of dollars and causes months of delays, then I guess developers are lazy...

    Gaming is a commercial industry and if a developer does not make a profit, they go out of business. Using the "make better games" defense is juvenile and naive - when a games can cost upwards of $100 million to develop and market, it's in that developer's best interest to maximise their return-on-investment and minimise ongoing support for a legacy product. If focusing on consoles allows them to do just that and means we get more great games as a result, I'm all for it.

    But you just keep sticking to your strawman argument and feminine intuition, what you're spouting is not even close to logic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shady Death View Post
    Crysis 2 better than Battlefield 3? LOLOLOLOOLLOLLOL
    Battlefield 3 is great, been playing Battlefield since BF 1942.The greatness exists solely in multiplayer, the single player was...... there.

    Crysis 2 in the single player department, it betters BF3, and weighing up both sides of both games, Crysis 2 nicks it.

    As for id, well, i hate to say it, but they may be losing their touch though Rage is at least not Daikatana.

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    I believe that id doesn't have much choice at this point but to work on consoles, and make them the main priority as for seeking a larger piece of the pie. If the company is suffering from poor sales and dealing with layoffs, they need to find a "hot fix" quickly, and focusing on the much larger potential group of buyers that is the console market is a "logical" step in attempting to salvage the company and turn the ship around.

    I've noticed recently that a lot of the groups who've spent more than 20+ years consistently hammering out games have had a hard time finding their niche in the gaming industry and making it reflect back in terms of consistent sales and the accolades that equal free publicity and in turn additional sales, in today's market. I don't quite understand if it's a case of having too much of the old guard and not enough fresh blood bringing new ideas to the table, or not having a strong enough desire to make the necessary changes that the industry is constantly going through, or focusing too much on something (in id's case, trying to be graphically pretty and placing fresh game play as a secondary factor) to really grasp what it is that the gaming community wants.

    I'd hate to see id disappear - they're one of the major trend setters of the industry and a lot of people owe their jobs to what id kick started. I understand why PC gamers would feel a bit of a slap in the face at this point, since it was on that platform that id built it's following and made it's initial impact, but they have to understand that the gaming industry is a business and what's best for id now is to focus on where they are most likely to make the revenue that will save the company so maybe one day they can get back up to the spot where they once were. As brash as the internet community can be at times, I don't think anybody really want's id to go away.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ant1th3s1s View Post
    You're simply reinforcing my argument as to why game developers focus on consoles...look at the headaches caused by the vast array of different PC configurations.

    I had massive issues getting many PC games to run on my Quad GPU, dual-SLi rig and the problem was solved by reinstalling Windows and removing one of the two monitors. How's a game developer supposed to account for my specific hardware and software configuration?

    A demo is not sufficient to determine whether or not a PC is compatible with a full game, nor is a beta. It's only when a game is released to market that a developer knows if the game works for everyone, and if it doesn't, it costs them more time and money to fix.

    On that basis, I can understand a percentage of piracy for 'legitimate' reasons, but it's a very small piece of a very large pie.
    I'm not sure I was arguing with you, the only point I disagree with is that PC gamers do not need demos, even if your rig is not set up correctly playing the demo would let you know and you can save the $50 until you figure out what the issue is.

    Demos are important for console gamers too, a lot of games rely on hype, photoshopped screenshots and sometimes lies (Fable! ), getting a test before the release date can save money sometimes, demos are never a bad thing for consumers.

    Personally I grew up on PC games but I don't see the point of being a PC gamer right now, all the major releases are console centered and usually get a sloppy PC port, if they even get one at all.

    The games that made PC gaming unique (Civilization, Dungeon Keeper etc.) either don't get made anymore, get dumbed down or I have just played them too much to be excited anymore.

    PC gaming isn't dying or anything, it's still very alive especially for competitive online games like BF3 or Starcraft, but if you just like singleplayer games to goof around with then consoles are the ones with all the games and least hassles.

    Anyway the issue with FPS games lately is to do with design trends not hardware.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HugeGremlins View Post
    I'm not sure I was arguing with you, the only point I disagree with is that PC gamers do not need demos, even if your rig is not set up correctly playing the demo would let you know and you can save the $50 until you figure out what the issue is.

    Demos are important for console gamers too, a lot of games rely on hype, photoshopped screenshots and sometimes lies (Fable! ), getting a test before the release date can save money sometimes, demos are never a bad thing for consumers.

    Personally I grew up on PC games but I don't see the point of being a PC gamer right now, all the major releases are console centered and usually get a sloppy PC port, if they even get one at all.

    The games that made PC gaming unique (Civilization, Dungeon Keeper etc.) either don't get made anymore, get dumbed down or I have just played them too much to be excited anymore.

    PC gaming isn't dying or anything, it's still very alive especially for competitive online games like BF3 or Starcraft, but if you just like singleplayer games to goof around with then consoles are the ones with all the games and least hassles.

    Anyway the issue with FPS games lately is to do with design trends not hardware.
    I agree, demo's are useful for system testing and they're great for getting a feel for the graphics, audio, environments and controls. But they're typically not based on the final build, are not going to tell you if the latest video drivers are compatible, or if 50 hours into Fallout 3, the huge save game file is likely to corrupt & slow the game to a crawl, or an end-level glitch in Crysis will prevent you from killing the final boss.

    But that's not a justification for piracy, like most consumer purchases in life which are "I like" or "I do not like" decisions, we just have to suck it and see. We don't get to view a movie ending to determine if we'll see it or not. We don't get to try clothes for months to test their wear before we buy. Nor drive a car for a year to test the fuel economy. We accept them at face value and accept the consequences of our purchase, why should games be any different?

    If we're interested enough to buy a game, we'll tend to buy it regardless of a demo. For example, I know Skyrim has potentially game-crippling issues on PS3 that won't show in a demo, but I'll buy it anyway because the good will far outweigh the bad.

    Unlike any other industry, software needs to accommodate a huge array of individual hardware customisations, some of which break a game, most of which work fine. Fixing a problem for a minority of users costs time and money that could be utilised working on the next big game. Focusing on consoles minimises that expense.
    Last edited by ant1th3s1s; 01-13-2012 at 06:57 PM.

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    You sir.... seem to jump to conclusions before anything is actually finished...

    Why not grab your balls and actually wait for something to be fully released?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kal View Post
    You sir.... seem to jump to conclusions before anything is actually finished...

    Why not grab your balls and actually wait for something to be fully released?
    That's not the PS360 way...leap before you look is more like it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ant1th3s1s View Post

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    Exactly. Welcome back, I missed your arguments. Either way, I am both a PC and console gamer myself, so PS360, does that make me a bad and horrible gamer too? For your info, I was a long-time and hardcore Guild Wars player for 4 years to be exact, as an example. Take a deep breath and look at yourself. Play more on consoles too, and FINISH the story of the games that you buy! How else can you call yourself a true gamer?

    "+10 Confounded" is a better theme for you, don't you think? =3 (And oh, if you are younger than I think you are, don't you think you are wasting your parents' money by not actually playing through the stories of PS3 games at all?)
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    Ps360....do you actually have any idea about the economic side of developing a game? By the sounds of it you possess little financial acumen. These developers are BUSINESSES. They are there to make money. If by making the switch to consoles for instance they can increase profits 3 fold while only losing out slightly on developing power what do you think they are going to do? If you had your way far more developers would most likely would have to close their doors. Oh yeah, one more thing, you dont like it? Then dont fucking buy it and quit your bitching.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cocoasg View Post
    For your info, I was a long-time and hardcore Guild Wars player for 4 years to be exact, as an example.
    Me too brother Cocoa. I played almost nothing else but Guild Wars for 3.5 years, sunk over 3,500 hours into that game and still haven't seen everything it has to offer (some PvP and end-game dungeons...I've got my Legendary Cartographer title).

    You buying GW2?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ant1th3s1s View Post
    I agree, demo's are useful for system testing and they're great for getting a feel for the graphics, audio, environments and controls. But they're typically not based on the final build, are not going to tell you if the latest video drivers are compatible, or if 50 hours of Fallout 3, the huge save game file is likely to corrupt & slow the game to a crawl, or an end-level glitch in Crysis will prevent you from killing the final boss.

    But that's not a justification for piracy, like most purchases in life, we just have to suck it and see. We don't get to view a movie ending to determine if we'll see it or not. We don't get to try clothes for months to test their wear before we buy. Nor test-drive a car for a year to test the fuel economy. We accept them at face value and accept the consequences of our purchase, why should games be any different?

    If we're interested enough to buy a game, we'll tend to buy it regardless of a demo. For example, I know Skyrim has potentially game-crippling issues on PS3 that won't show in a demo, but I'll buy it anyway because the good will far outweigh the bad.
    A demo won't tell you if your gonna love every aspect of a game true, but it gives you a taste of the fundamentals and the 'feel' of it too.

    I see what your saying with the cinema situation though, but when you pay $12 at the cinema you know the movie will work and if not they will give you a refund. With consoles you also know the game will work, it's guaranteed or else everyone would return the game.

    On PC you don't have that guarantee so a demo is important, I downloaded Dead Island and tried it out before purchasing it, it worked and I liked it so I payed for it through Steam and got it legit once I knew. On the other hand I downloaded Shogun 2 and it didn't run as well as I would have wanted it to so i deleted it and did not purchase it.

    I'm not saying the majority of pirates 'demo' games ethically, but there is definitely a need of demos for PC gamers and I don't see any reason not to provide them.

    EDIT\ I know there was a Shogun 2 demo but I wanted to see if they had actually improved the campaign A.I. and some other features.

    They did, Shogun 2 is a really good game but it did not run at a steady 30fps so I did not buy it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HugeGremlins View Post
    I'm not saying the majority of pirates 'demo' games ethically, but there is definitely a need of demos for PC gamers and I don't see any reason not to provide them.
    Desirable, yes. Necessary, no. But PS360's assertion that the most pirated games of 2011 was simply on the basis they didn't offer a demo is wishful thinking.

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    Yeah there is no way to really tell how many people downloaded something to avoid paying for it or to demo it. Piracy began as a way of spreading free or cheap entertainment way way back and it will always be it's main purpose.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HugeGremlins View Post
    I'm not saying the majority of pirates 'demo' games ethically, but there is definitely a need of demos for PC gamers and I don't see any reason not to provide them.
    The reason is that it takes time out of actually working on the game. They have to divert resources to the demo that they could be using to get the game finished. IF they want to release it before the game actually comes out.

    They then have to weigh the fact that the demo might not work. It could be full of bugs - game breaking bugs - and that can end up hurting their sales, regardless of whether or not they say "This is taken from an unfinished work".

    There's a lot more of a risk involved with releasing a demo than appears on the surface.

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    Yeah it can hurt sales but most people are forgiving enough to let a few bugs slip.

    I noticed on PSN some demos appearing after games have been released, RAGE and Duke Forever off the top of my head, games with lots of hype, other quieter games release a demo weeks before release to get some interest.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ant1th3s1s View Post
    If quadrupling sales by focusing on consoles instead of PC thanks to rampant piracy means 'ruining a game' to make it profitable, I'll happily take the ruined version.
    Finally someone with a brain.
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    Games aren't ruined just because they're made for consoles. They're ruined because most developers these days try to maximize their profits by making games that everyone can get into, including casual gamers. THAT makes the games more simple and easier to play, not the fact that they're made just for consoles.

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