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The Order 1886 New Pic/Gif

This is a discussion on The Order 1886 New Pic/Gif within the General PS4 Discussion forum, part of the Everything PlayStation; Ally AI's were disappointing, but not a big deal. Didn't pick TLOU so you could have a weird little rant ...

  1. #41
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    Ally AI's were disappointing, but not a big deal.

    Didn't pick TLOU so you could have a weird little rant about HL2. Ok so maybe it gets a 10 for player/AI interaction, but TLOU is far from a 0. You've got great ingame dialogue, cooperation with Ellie and others in fights, puzzles etc. and some good cutscenes in the mix as well. Has it been done better? Yes, and not just in HL. But so what?

    Point is there's more to games these days than gameplay, and it's a good thing.

  2. #42
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    Oh i forgot another good example of showing story via gameplay that came out last year.


    thomas was alone.

    it's a game about cubes with emotions. no graphical/cutscene parity or godlike soundtrack needed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Outstandind View Post
    You've got great ingame dialogue, cooperation with Ellie and others in fights, puzzles etc. and some good cutscenes in the mix as well. Has it been done better? Yes, and not just in HL. But so what?
    but when she has invincibility mode and a invisibilty cloak the entire time the whole entire plot of "you need to keep ellie safe! she has the cure!" self destructs on itself, ruining any momentum for me to bond via conflict.

    the only time she was ever put into any actual danger was

    Toggle Spoiler






    it would of been cool if, lets say ellie was able to be a hostage by AI (completely unscripted event, would happen randomly once in the game or maybe never) and you needed to defuse the situation by sneaking up on them and knocking out the guy who has ellie or taking the full conflict route and shooting the guy who has ellie, putting ellie at risk of being shot too. This gameplay tactic could then be used to permamently effect ellie's personality twoards the player over the course of the game. (Play it safe and less conflict route, she says you did a smart move or something along those lines thus helps you more out of respect. take a risk, she gets a bit emotional over the fact she almost got shot and trusts you less thus gets more unpredictable.)


    if i had time i can add a wishlist of gameplay mechanics that would of made the last of us as good as everyone says it is.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ps360 View Post
    Oh i forgot another good example of showing story via gameplay that came out last year.


    thomas was alone.

    it's a game about cubes with emotions. no graphical/cutscene parity or godlike soundtrack needed.

    but when she has invincibility mode and a invisibilty cloak the entire time the whole entire plot of "you need to keep ellie safe! she has the cure!" self destructs on itself, ruining any momentum for me to bond via conflict.

    the only time she was ever put into any actual danger was

    Toggle Spoiler






    it would of been cool if, lets say ellie was able to be a hostage by AI (completely unscripted event, would happen randomly once in the game or maybe never) and you needed to defuse the situation by sneaking up on them and knocking out the guy who has ellie or taking the full conflict route and shooting the guy who has ellie, putting ellie at risk of being shot too. This gameplay tactic could then be used to permamently effect ellie's personality twoards the player over the course of the game. (Play it safe and less conflict route, she says you did a smart move or something along those lines thus helps you more out of respect. take a risk, she gets a bit emotional over the fact she almost got shot and trusts you less thus gets more unpredictable.)


    if i had time i can add a wishlist of gameplay mechanics that would of made the last of us as good as everyone says it is.
    I haven't played Thomas was alone, so I can't really talk about it. Admittedly cynical about how good it could possibly be.

    Seems like a bad example to me lol. 'Oh here's another game that did it right, you've got these two cubes and they're so cute, and you really manage to care for them by the end of the game.' Ok great, so what? Most people would rather play Uncharted, or Metal Gear Solid, or Grand Theft Auto V. And NOT as cubes, you know what I mean? Can you deliver an experience on par with GTA if you take away the graphics, music etc. and replace everyone with cubes or blobs or whatever? I doubt it. Might reach Amazing Frog levels of success but that's about it.

    So in summary: yes you can do great things with gameplay alone. but presentation, graphics, music, story etc. go a hell of a long way. Tetris, Pong and Resogun are great if you like pure gameplay and nothing else, but they're not for me. Story/music/graphics (artstyle, aesthetic, whatever) are super important to a lot of gamers.


    ---

    I agree they missed opportunities to make Ellie a vulnerable character but that's not the only way to get players to relate to her.

    One way she grows on us though is by being useful. As you're sneaking around she'll point out enemies you might not be aware of, pick up extra ammo for you, *talk to you* (which goes a long way if the character has an interesting personality) and she'll even put herself in harms way just to keep you safe several times throughout the story. It works, just probly not if you're bitter about her AI or 'what could have been.'

    PS: Agree that TLOU was nowhere near as good as people were saying lol.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outstandind View Post
    I haven't played Thomas was alone, so I can't really talk about it. Admittedly cynical about how good it could possibly be.
    its one of those games that are deceptive then it blows your mind when you play it. like spec ops the line (hey look another game that uses gameplay as plot device)



    Quote Originally Posted by Outstandind View Post
    I agree they missed opportunities to make Ellie a vulnerable character but that's not the only way to get players to relate to her.

    One way she grows on us though is by being useful. As you're sneaking around she'll point out enemies you might not be aware of, pick up extra ammo for you, *talk to you* (which goes a long way if the character has an interesting personality) and she'll even put herself in harms way just to keep you safe several times throughout the story. It works, just probly not if you're bitter about her AI or 'what could have been.'

    PS: Agree that TLOU was nowhere near as good as people were saying lol.
    she barely talked to me the entire game outside of required dialogue.

    when she says jokes it's like shes saying the equivalent of terrible dad jokes that make me want to shoot myself. one example is "I stayed up all night wondering where the sun went, then it dawned on me"

    the only time she throws herself in harms way to help you is when the writers threw it into the story in the snow part after joel decides to have fun with tetanus and a hole in his side. but then you play as her so whats the point now.


    also, i don't want a Sony/Naughty Dog Patented portable ammo/health vending machine as a companion (im looking at you too bioshock).


    Immersion breaking game problems can ruin plot. Imagine a great plot then all the sudden the game glitches and your weapons don't work on that save file ever again. that would take me out of the story and potentially make me stop playing depending on how far i am.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ps360 View Post
    its one of those games that are deceptive then it blows your mind when you play it. like spec ops the line (hey look another game that uses gameplay as plot device)
    Most games use gameplay as a plot device.. just not the *only* device.

    I didn't like Spec Ops personally. Mediocre TPS gameplay, poorly implemented illusion of choice, over-hyped etc.

    ---

    - barely talks? whenever you've got some downtime she's making conversation. She doesn't talk when you're in combat because you're generally trying to be stealthy.
    - ok, she ain't no comedian but she'll grow on most players, long as they don't have a heart as black as tar.
    - wrong. she helps out in combat. she helps out with the sniper in one section of the game, plus she rejoins you when you're trapped near the bridge. she also saves your ass in the hotel. Plus the scenario you mentioned. maybe more, since I've just entered the power plant personally.
    - she's only trying to help :3
    - Yes. Game-breaking bugs exist. Sorry.

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    Jeez, get a room you two.

    Game looks alright. Very pretty, but nothing revolutionary. Yet.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ps360 View Post
    Last of us had good writing and all, but it all got ruined for me when ellie walks in front of 20 guys/clickers making the loudest racket possible in front of their face and nothing happens to her.

    and then the AI Decides to have the strangest glitches in game history.


    Hyperbithero shows off the terribad AI






    If your gonna have a AI companion, it needs to be Alyx Vance-tier or not in the game. Alyx Vance was detected by Enemy AI and fought to defend herself, if left alone and overrun, she gets killed. This rarely happens though because the programmers for her AI gave her some form of intelligence and thus able to defend herself properly. She also has moments where she needs the players help to kill things while player doesn't have gun (Episode 1's "Shine a flashlight on the enemy" section) that section is known as Character bonding via gameplay, not only is it not told to you but shown to you, your the one to cause it. Since you caused it you yourself bond to Alyx more in the story so when shit goes wrong with her you'll feel it hard. Thats proper storytelling in video games.
    I'd hate to say i but that video regarding the A.I. is wank. The A.I. was never that bad during my playthroughs. Maybe the updates helped (I never played it day 1) but I know for a fact I never experienced A.I. that shit. It wasn't great by any stretch but not as terrible as that video makes out to be

    And drop that Alyx Vance shit. I know you have anything Vavle related so far up your twat you're chocking, but knock it off. You don't bond with Alyx the way you're banging on about. You bond more with Dog than you do with Alyx


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    Quote Originally Posted by Outstandind View Post
    What about Nier, Heavy Rain, Beyond: Two Souls, The Walking Dead, etc.?

    Great games. Not so great gameplay.

    Gameplay is important, but it's far from the most important or only important thing as far as I'm concerned.
    You can hardly call Heavy Rain/Beyond or TWD games. They lean toward visual novel type of "games". Even the producers of Heavy/Beyond didn't know if they are "traditional" games.

    Theres a reason why games like ET, Superman 64, and Ride to Hell Retribution are considered one of the worst in video games. What do they all have in common? they lack good gameplay. Gameplay should always be the #1 priority into making games.

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    Quote Originally Posted by M40A3 View Post
    You can hardly call Heavy Rain/Beyond or TWD games. They lean toward visual novel type of "games". Even the producers of Heavy/Beyond didn't know if they are "traditional" games.
    Of course they're games. Especially when you're decisions significantly change the outcome of the story.

    And y'know what? They happen to be pretty darn good.

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    Maybe we should rename this thread "PS360 vs the world". 1886 looks awesome. And yes, we've seen shooters before but that doesn't mean it's going to be the exactly like all the others. And yes, MGS GZ is 3 hours of STORY but we don't really know yet what the side stuff will look like and game length means a lot less than game quality. If a game is so good that you want more, then they did it right. Why are you guys so mad???

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    Quote Originally Posted by M40A3 View Post
    You can hardly call Heavy Rain/Beyond or TWD games. They lean toward visual novel type of "games". Even the producers of Heavy/Beyond didn't know if they are "traditional" games.
    The walking dead is a game similar to 90s PC Point and click adventures.


    it has gameplay involving puzzles, game choices, etc. It has the proper requirements of being a game. I don't like the walking dead though for some reason but i have no idea why i don't like it, maybe it's just a general repusion thing or maybe im overloaded on drama zombie crap.

    Heavy rain has similar choices and does fit in the requirements of a game (has puzzles, actual gameplay at times, etc.), though barely scraping through. I hated the story though due to massive plotholes and the missing motive reasons for the origami killer.


    A example of a visual novel game would be Steins;Gate (This VN is basically Back to the future: Japan Edition. if you don't want to play it but want to experience it, just watch the anime.) or Analogue: a hate story (this VN has a better emotional plot than most games out there. a sequel came out called hate plus, but it feels more like a expansion pack than a sequel.)


    example of a "Game" that has neither good plot or good gameplay would be gone home or beyond two souls. They call these failures "A virtual installation" or a "Experience" in a attempt to sell it to you but they barely call it a game because a game has to be fun gameplay wise or entertaining story wise to be good.

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    I wouldn't put any judgement on the game just yet, seeing that it doesn't come out until Fall 2014. Once they show more at E3 etc, I think it will look better IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ps360 View Post
    example of a "Game" that has neither good plot or good gameplay would be gone home or beyond two souls. They call these failures "A virtual installation" or a "Experience" in a attempt to sell it to you but they barely call it a game because a game has to be fun gameplay wise or entertaining story wise to be good.
    You didn't enjoy messing around with Aiden? They should have done more to make him interesting, but there some pretty good moments mixed in there.

    And how come you don't enjoy the story in Quantic Dream games? They're flawed but usually pretty fun.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outstandind View Post
    You didn't enjoy messing around with Aiden? They should have done more to make him interesting, but there some pretty good moments mixed in there.

    And how come you don't enjoy the story in Quantic Dream games? They're flawed but usually pretty fun.
    Quantic Dream games are known to have retarded plots.


    Play Indigo Prophecy. that game is the literal epitome of how retarded david cage can get.


    Starts off simple, Amnesia Murder Mystery, Then suddenly the main character dies

    Then he gets resurrected by computer AI's known as the purple clan (who are the internet)

    then the Hobo illuminati tries to kill him while the world freezes to death and the final boss of the game is a guy that came from the Mayans.


    also the matrix because fuck you thats why.


    This was before Sony found them.


    how sony thought a company and a man that makes something like that can pump out something good is insanity.

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    I liked Indigo Prophecy :/

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    Quote Originally Posted by juliuspleezer View Post
    Maybe we should rename this thread "PS360 vs the world". 1886 looks awesome. And yes, we've seen shooters before but that doesn't mean it's going to be the exactly like all the others. And yes, MGS GZ is 3 hours of STORY but we don't really know yet what the side stuff will look like and game length means a lot less than game quality. If a game is so good that you want more, then they did it right. Why are you guys so mad???
    Ps360 is doing what Ps360 does best - winding people up


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    There is an award going for you Ps360, for shoehorning Thomas Was Alone, Gone Home and Paper's Please into a post about a third person cover shooter's Gif, that's far more confuzzlingly, wonderfully, wrong than Indigo Prophecy's plot.

    In seriousness, The Order looks decent enough, interesting they've decided to keep it single player given the reveal trailer, that's what people want more of right? A game that doesn't 'waste ' resources on unneeded MP? I'll give it plus points for that.

    Still, unless it has something wickedly clever up it's sleeve then it will be more than likely another' cover shooter with pretties '. That's fine to a degree as it won't make it a bad game, a familiar one yes, but a truly bad game is going to be the one that fails to implement the simple things right, not the one that uses tried and tested methods.

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