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ant1th3s1s' things that go "ding!" in the night...

This is a discussion on ant1th3s1s' things that go "ding!" in the night... within the Trophy Checklists forum, part of the Trophy Guides, Reviews & Articles; Originally Posted by ant1th3s1s I imagine weapon and class upgrades still apply, in which case, it's still unbalanced in bias ...

  1. #621
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    Quote Originally Posted by ant1th3s1s View Post
    I imagine weapon and class upgrades still apply, in which case, it's still unbalanced in bias of veteran players (who also have a map knowledge advantage). So things like healing when hitting a melee strike, homing grenades, greater accuracy, less recoil etc are still unlocked for vets, but not for noobs. I haven't played enough PvP to be certain and haven't checked my class unlocks in PvP, but I think that's the case.
    It is true that weapon upgrades (when unlocked) do count as differences between players, though I am pretty sure class unlocks with respect to stat boosts do not, but other class unlocks still apply . From my PVP experience, it was fun compared to other shooters and less lag-riddled actually. Let's just say that the Destiny PVP as a whole is much more lenient than CoD or Battlefield, and once you get used to it, you will be hogging powers like crazy and sniping people off one by one.

    Just focus on maxing out your subclasses for now, and then getting some decent weapons (you can buy exotic ones from Xur every week). It will be slow starting off, but you can already be on an equal level as a level 1-5 against a level 32 on non-Iron Banner modes once you get used to it. I am pretty average at shooters myself, and actually never play CoD games at all, but in Destiny, I was rocking killstreaks with friends every now and then. It gets more fun the more you play, unless it still lags in your region. I strongly recommend getting the Last Word handgun, coupled with either a fusion rifle or sniper rifle as secondary, and you are all set. Good luck!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagflar View Post
    You should've seen that coming. As you say, it's an MMO - and it never tried to deviate itself from them.
    As an action game, you expect to be moving along at a decent clip. But the faction progression is slug-like, which deviates itself from the core game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cocoasg View Post
    It is true that weapon upgrades (when unlocked) do count as differences between players, though I am pretty sure class unlocks with respect to stat boosts do not, but other class unlocks still apply . From my PVP experience, it was fun compared to other shooters and less lag-riddled actually. Let's just say that the Destiny PVP as a whole is much more lenient than CoD or Battlefield, and once you get used to it, you will be hogging powers like crazy and sniping people off one by one.
    Lag is my biggest killer. I go fine when it's not an issue (40 killstreak in Garden Warfare and 10+ KDR), but most games smack me around with 500ms+ lag. I can't play Crysis 2 MP either because I connect to French servers from Australia. They're on fibre-optic networks, I'm on the slowest possible broadband connection from half a world away, so it's a futile task from the start.

    I went alright in Team Deathmatch and I've only tried each Crucible mode a couple of times, but there's a noticeable advantage for the Lvl32 guys, regardless of the game stating there's no level advantage. The simple fact is they have better gear and better skills unlocked and getting to that point is nothing but a grind. If the level bias and lag wasn't there, I can deal with that, but it is, so it's not fun because there is no parity. By the time I see them, I'm already dead... Curse you Tony Abbott for destroying the NBN

    Level caps on game modes or matchmaking of some type would address the problem. The only difference between a 20 and a 32 IS gear and the gap between crappy Greens & Blue and Legendaries & Exotics is substantial. Bungie just needs to bridge that gap a bit faster by reducing the grind.

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    Then, I guess it is either lag or experience on their part. In any case, you can join my Destiny clan, RedT, which I am still active in; they help out with strikes, raids and do PVP together as well, currently 80 members strong. Oh, and they also do flawless runs; I was part of the very first team in RedT that achieved the flawless raider trophy for the clan, and now, more and more members are starting to achieve the same too. So you will find a slot easily to practice for it. You can PM the leader, 'Garter_Windwood', to get invited to the clan chat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by cocoasg View Post
    Then, I guess it is either lag or experience on their part. In any case, you can join my Destiny clan, RedT, which I am still active in; they help out with strikes, raids and do PVP together as well, currently 80 members strong. Oh, and they also do flawless runs; I was part of the very first team in RedT that achieved the flawless raider trophy for the clan, and now, more and more members are starting to achieve the same too. So you will find a slot easily to practice for it. You can PM the leader, 'Garter_Windwood', to get invited to the clan chat.
    I might need to do that my good man. And thanks for the offer.

    I guess my criticism of Destiny MP extends to most online FPS shooters. The vets just get better and better gear which makes it easier and easier to kill. Meanwhile the nubs get their nuts crushed into the dust and it's really difficult to build the momentum and maintain the motivation to keep going when you're wielding a pea-shooter against a death-star.

    That why I enjoyed Garden Warfare's MP so much. Regardless of experience or class, it's an even playing field. And for the first time in God knows how long, lag wasn't an issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ant1th3s1s View Post
    As an action game, you expect to be moving along at a decent clip. But the faction progression is slug-like, which deviates itself from the core game.
    It being an action game never meant it wouldn't be an MMO at heart, though, and that includes the mindless and endless grinding for end-game/high tier gear, among other shit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagflar View Post
    It being an action game never meant it wouldn't be an MMO at heart, though, and that includes the mindless and endless grinding for end-game/high tier gear, among other shit.
    You play the SP campaign and level up quite quickly to 20 by simply completing the storyline and some patrols. But then a giant STOP sign pops outta nowhere to say "That's enough of that shit." and your progress screams to a halt as you now grind your arse off for some very mediocre gear just to compete in the PvP mode you're forced to play if you want the Plat.

    Destiny is a futuristic shooter and labelling it an MMO doesn't justify what Bungie has done here. I don't want to play 300 hours of repetitive bullshit just to get some decent armour and guns, only to have that effort completely nullified on the release of the next expansion pack. All it does is create a captive and very pissed off audience, which is the general consensus from those who play it.

    And it's not like there's a tonne of gear to get, nor epic sets to covet, as you'd expect to get in Guild Wars, EverQuest, FF or World of Warcraft. It's just generic "Sniper rifle with fire DoT" type stuff that does exactly the same damage as all other sniper rifles of that level. And you need 4 weapons of the same kind to cover the different damage types, just in case you meet a boss who is immune to your uber-weapon, so you better grind that shit out a further 3 times. The reward doesn't equate to the effort involved to get it.

    Honestly Nag, the MMO part barely comes into it and is shoe-horned in simply to keep the user-base alive. Aside from your bog-standard MP modes, there's a dozen or two repeatable short Patrol missions (fetch quests attaching useless drops to enemies you'd already kill, or scanning a map location you've already been) on each of the 4 worlds, a couple of randomly-spawned Public Events (it's the same every time), a handful of high-end Strikes (the same locations and enemies you face everywhere else plus a higher-level generic boss who eats bullets like lollies) and 2 Raids (lots of enemies in a unique level).

    None of the MMO inclusions are very rewarding and end-of-mission drops are completely random, meaning the shittiest player can get the best gear, while the better guys get nothing at all. Missed out? Tough shit! Rinse and repeat your hour-long mission.

    Weighing up the MMO component alone, it's very lightweight with the only difference from normal play being the longer health bar of your standard dozen enemy types and the minuscule return on time invested. There's no professions, no crafting, no trading, no housing, no guild halls, no faction warfare, no unique boss drops...nothing that you'd expect in an MMO other than 2 harder missions that Bungie calls "Raids" to justify the MMO tag, a whopping 4 resources to "farm", which in reality means "randomly pick up when you see it", and 4 fucking stupid emotes. It's just "Shoot more shit to get more gear...eventually" and that gear is far from unique or interesting.

    The "Massively" part of MMO doesn't even come into it, with Social zones limited to 20 players and the MP teams for the biggest Crucible mode limited to 8 a side. That's just standard online MP. Garden Warfare has more than that with 12 on 12 and it's a far better experience.

    It's all very...meh...and the MMO stuff feels tacked-on to the core shooter game for no particular reason. The best part is, you get to grind the same handful of shit endlessly every fucking day to slowly, ever-so-slowly, grind out your faction rewards so eventually, you get guns good enough to delay getting your head blown off a couple of seconds later than the guy who grinded twice as much for slightly better gear. Not to mention factional rewards for Daily and Weekly missions are capped, so the only time you get decent XP to speed shit along is hobbled to keep you coming back!

    Not fun. Destiny's post-game is simply drip-fed grind for the sake of grind with little reward for effort. Make it faster so we can end the pain sooner. It's a real shame because as a shooter, Destiny isn't half-bad and looks and feels pretty damn good. The SP campaign is alright. Strikes are fun. Raids have potential. PvP is same old shit, different bucket. As an MMO, it's a steaming turd.

    [edit] I just received 1000 Vanguard rep by email for NOT playing Destiny. That's more than I would have got by playing the game
    Last edited by ant1th3s1s; 01-31-2015 at 05:24 AM.

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    Ant1, in all hoensty, you fucked up then. If you didn't want to have to partake of the MMO experience, you shouldn't have bought the fucking game in the first place, much less if you wanted to get the plat.

    That consesus comes from a looooot of people like you, who didn't know what they were messing with in the first place. It's something that's done in MMOs all the freaking time. There's a core game, but the core game gets a shitload of add-on content which expands on it and, at the end of the day, the core equipment and items end up being relegated more and more and more.

    The MMO part was the biggest selling point. It's the part that made Analvision and Bungie publicize the game as such a huge time-waster that'll last "10 years". You shouldn't really complain about it because it was obvious from the get-go they'd fucking do that lol. Is it well-done? No. Is it enjoyable? No. This is Bungie's first attempt at something since they started the bloody Halo franchise - and MMOs are uncharted territories for them, so they were bound to fuck it up, especially to those who aren't used to MMOs, let alone the huge timesinkers they are. There's not enough content, the new content is shite, there's hardly any new features and the grinding is, in good MMO fashion, annoying and extreme - all this coming from Bungie, and they probably never even played an MMO.

    Wow, they fucked it up big time! WHO WOULD'VE GUESSED!

    I never expected this to work out, and I questioned from the beginning even getting the expansion pack (and this is obviously part of why I don't have the game - because I never expected it to deliver on that department, which was the one that was supposedly going to make it last).

    Most of the shit you mention (such as random public events that never change, capped exp, random loot, etc.) are typical MMO shit. Go play the free FFXIV test and see for yourself - though you probably won't get to see the cap bullshit and random loot drops because it's end-game shit.

    Anyway, I feel sorry for your loss, ant1. You enjoyed the game without knowing what you'd have to deal with afterwards (or you chose to ignore it). You hopped on the "hype!" bandwagon a bit too soon, and now you're left cursing at Bungie's half-assed attempt at doing something different.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagflar View Post
    Ant1, in all hoensty, you fucked up then. If you didn't want to have to partake of the MMO experience, you shouldn't have bought the fucking game in the first place, much less if you wanted to get the plat.

    That consesus comes from a looooot of people like you, who didn't know what they were messing with in the first place.
    Nag, I played nothing but MMOs for 4 years prior to buying the PS3. I racked up thousands of hours in Guild Wars and World of Warcraft. I well and truly embraced the grind. I knew exactly what to expect from an MMO.

    Destiny
    is NOT an MMO. It's an unrewarding grind attached to a shooter for bland, generic guns and armour that are no better than anything else in the game, but have an artificial Level cap attached to prevent you from accessing the higher-end Strikes and Raids until you grind enough points to unlock them. Nothing more. Nothing less. It's really poorly done, particularly when compared to GW and WoW, which as I've said, I've played to death, so I'm more than familiar with MMO tropes.

    Aside from an almost complete lack of end-game content, which is why they force the grind to be so unrewarding, what Destiny's post-game lacks is a proper sense of progression. Every other MMO does it to good effect by iteratively introducing better gear to fight tougher bosses who drop more powerful unique items...rinse and repeat. Destiny locks it all away at Rank 3 of whatever faction you fight for. So you basically jump from Level 20 to 32 in a single leap, instead of going from 20 > 22 > 24 > 26 > 28 > 30 > 32, unless you grind that shit out yourself on low-end content.

    Unlocking some gear at Rank 1, then again at Rank 2 would largely fix the problem. It's a simple tweak to the formula that makes it feel like you're getting somewhere instead of pointlessly grinding away until you hit Rank 3 when the game suddenly opens up again. We're not talking a tonne of stuff - each faction has maybe 8-16 generic items up for grabs to allow you to tackle the higher-end content, which then enables you to get the more exotic drops...if you're lucky.

    So you're forced to eat shit by doing low-end PvE ad infinitum and getting your arse kicked in PvP until you hit Rank 3, then you get to force everyone else to eat shit because you had to eat shit to get there. It's a dumb formula because unlike other MMOs, you have to do PvP if you want the fastest route to the gear that unlocks the better content. You can't just do Strikes or Raids or Patrols or Missions because of the points cap, with half of them locked away in PvP.

    The problem is the fully unlocked skill-trees and Legendary gear attributes are so much better than the Level 20 crap you're stuck with that it's difficult to avoid getting your arse handed to you, which makes the grind even longer and less enjoyable. Toss in some parity (which Bungie has tried unsuccessfully to do) and it's at least tolerable.

    The beginning is there. The end is there. The middle is where they've lost the plot by not rewarding the grind quickly enough. That perception has nothing to do with inexperience with MMOs. It has everything to do with experience in better, genuine MMOs. What I expected was an evolution of the MMO in a dynamic space opera setting. What I got was a paper-thin, teaspoon-deep time-sink, with admittedly slick shooting mechanics to suck you in.

    MMOs were at their peak the better part of a decade ago. Since then, we've moved on. There are dozens of great new games to play every year, so I expect modern games to move at a faster pace. Destiny's SP game does just that and satisfies the criteria. The post-game sends it straight down the toilet. The mere fact that Bungie sent me more faction rep than I have time to earn in a week is an acknowledgement that they've got the post-game wrong for the better part of their userbase who don't want to play one game indefinitely.
    Last edited by ant1th3s1s; 01-31-2015 at 06:34 PM.

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    I get what you mean with it not being an MMO per se, but they were trying to make it feel like one - and that's the big issue with the game: that they failed at it. Horribly, too.

    As you say, they not only implemented features poorly, but they didn't even try to implement features that fit today's standards better (something FFXIV fails to do as well), and that's where the game gains most of its criticism: since the SP was never designed to be the popular and game-lasting feature, people expected the MMO portion to be the better-done part, yet it reeks of incompetence and bad design.

    As I said before, I kind of expected this to happen. Bungie's never done anything similar before, and even though Activision has/is Blizzard, they were not developing. As with any first-timer, I didn't think they'd pull it off, yet I hoped it'd at least be decent - guess I was wrong. Good thing I'm not as interested now in playing it though .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagflar View Post
    As you say, they not only implemented features poorly, but they didn't even try to implement features that fit today's standards better (something FFXIV fails to do as well), and that's where the game gains most of its criticism: since the SP was never designed to be the popular and game-lasting feature, people expected the MMO portion to be the better-done part, yet it reeks of incompetence and bad design.
    I don't think it's incompetent, it just feels incomplete and unbalanced. I guess Bungie can justify that by claiming it's not a subscription-based game, ergo there isn't the end-game content you'd expect from your typical MMO. But, neither is Guild Wars and it's chocked to the roof with post-game content. Some simple tweaking and more variety would go a long way to fixing it.

    And yep, don't judge the game by the SP portion. It looks great and plays well, but Destiny is let down by the post-game. Save your dough for more rewarding games

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    After the awful experience I had playing Destiny MP thanks to mahoosive lag, it was time to investigate my ISP options. Two months later and I have a brand spanking new 100Mbps connection.

    From this...



    ...to this...



    ...I'm back in the game baby!

    Upload speed is still shit thanks to the 2.5Mbps speed cap, but that's the best I can get until the 100Mbps down / 40Mbps up NBN rolls out.

    Also spent a few grand pimping my setup, including a Yahama 5.1 receiver and surround sound speakers, Philips X2 Fidelio headphones and a Creative Sound Blaster X7...video games have never sounded so good. Pics to come.

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    You lucky bastard. If you ever decide to go back to Destiny, let me know. Me, ooga, and a few others play daily, and we always have a blast

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    Quote Originally Posted by Faust View Post
    You lucky bastard. If you ever decide to go back to Destiny, let me know. Me, ooga, and a few others play daily, and we always have a blast
    I forgot to mention that I sprang for one of these - Netduma.com.


    More here - http://netduma.com/for-gamers/


    In a nutshell, NetDuma is a gaming router that connects to the fastest online servers or peer-to-peer MP hosts, and reduces latency caused by other users or devices on the local network.

    Early days, but I fucking love it and I can confirm that it does the job of cherry-picking the best connections based on a combination of configurable ping and distance, along with superb QoS management for LAN-based latency. I bought the NetDuma a month ago and have been fanging to give it a bash on the cable connection. Works for PC, XBL, PSN and Wii Online.

    I'll be back on Destiny tomorrow night - I want to test out the new speed. My ping for Garden Warfare was pretty solid at 60-80ms on dodgy ADSL, which is the most playable online console MP I've had to date. NetDuma is pinging the same servers at 20ms on cable, which looks promising for Destiny MP.

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    Cool cool cool. We usually play from 12-8 pm AEST, depending on when I wake up, though it changes if its the weekly reset or Xur shows up, etc.

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    Here's one making ends meet and trying to buy a PS死 for cheap, yet you're spending hundreds left and right on a new connection, surround system, a gaming router and who knows what else.

    Fuck you, ant1!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nagflar View Post
    Here's one making ends meet and trying to buy a PS死 for cheap, yet you're spending hundreds left and right on a new connection, surround system, a gaming router and who knows what else.

    Fuck you, ant1!
    Just living the dream Nag. Pro tip: passive income.

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    Now that's just spending money for the sake of spending.

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